So I got a vicar...

Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
919
This thing will not get sharp no matter how much time I spend on the edge pro. I've been using the edge pro for years and I have never seen something so thick behind the edge. Out of box it had a insanely short, steep edge. So I tried to back it off to where I could actually see an edge. Even after re-profiling to a much wider 16 degree angle it still won't cut paper. And I've taken it down to 3k grit. I know, just send it in to get sharpened. I'm just curious if any of you own this model and have been in the same boat.
 
This thing will not get sharp no matter how much time I spend on the edge pro. I've been using the edge pro for years and I have never seen something so thick behind the edge. Out of box it had a insanely short, steep edge. So I tried to back it off to where I could actually see an edge. Even after re-profiling to a much wider 16 degree angle it still won't cut paper. And I've taken it down to 3k grit. I know, just send it in to get sharpened. I'm just curious if any of you own this model and have been in the same boat.

I've never done a Vicar. If you're game I'll do it for free, just cover the shipping.

BM usually does a good job with HT, so I'd bet it's just a geometry issue.
 
I absolutely loved my Vicar, the third replacement of which Benchmade kindly suggested I return to them, permanently, once again demonstrating they are a powerhouse of customer service excellence and consistency. I will provide further elaboration after addressing your question.

The problem you referenced was not experienced by me, as the factory edge was sufficiently sharp and the grind was as close to perfectly symmetrical as one could hope for. However, a very skilled sharpener, with whom I frequently talk shop, did in fact tell me he struggled and for the most part failed to achieve the extremely sharp edge he attempted to put on his Vicar. He claimed the difficulty was the thickness that lurked relatively close behind the edge that he had underestimated and as such was forced to remove far more steel than anticipated and desired. I saw the final product. Looked like shit. But he blames himself for not adjusting his standard protocol to the geometry of the blade and grind.

As to my quick succession of Vicars, I encountered what I and presumably others deem to be a more significant issue. The lockup and the engineering gaff that I have long since forgiven, due to Benchmade making absolutely certain I was not only beyond happy at the conclusion of the saga, but also because Benchmade exhibited unprecedented honesty and integrity rather than insulting my intelligence with absurd explanations in an effort to save face or assign blame.

Upon receiving my first Vicar, I marvelled at its design, details, ergos and uniqueness. However, after making very light use of it, easily noticeable lock rock surfaced within a week. It was persistent and uninterrupted. Ahhhhhhhh. But an adjustable stop pin I thought simply needed to be turned, in order to achieve an earlier lock up. To my shock, dismay and genuine confusion, I quickly determined that the adjustable stop pin had initially been set to achieve the earliest lock up possible, as all the remaining faces of the stop pin were LOWER and closer to the center point of the pin. Knowing of Benchmade's ordinary engineering prowess, I thought this HAD to be a defective adjustable stop pin. Why? Because why in the world would they consciously elect to not have the faces progressively be designed HIGHER and achieve earlier lock ups, which If done right could help combat the lock rock caused by the rapid galling from the titanium / steel Interaction between the lock bar and the tang. Why include a multi faceted stop pin, the design of which not only failed to offset lock rock, but exponentially increased it, if used. Keep in mind, the knife was at the time of purchase, one of Benchmade's most expensive non gold glass / non limited production knives.

Customer service was with me 100%. No attitude.
No judgements. They promised a happy ending without flinching or hesitating. They told me to send it in and they would do that voodoo that they do so well and take heroic measures if necessary to remedy the issue. After a quick turn around, a brand new Vicar with perfect fit and finish was back in my hand. The lock up was rock solid.......for a week. Once again, it began to behave like a seesaw. Ahhhhhhh. The stop pin is adjustable and last time HAD to be an anomaly. Nope. Same exact bewildering engineering. Genius idea. Laughably absurd implementation. A hexagonal stop pin that had the opposite effect of its intended purpose, due to the other 5 faces causing a later lock up from the initial lockup by reason of them being progressively lower and closer to the center point than the face of the initial lockup. Wtf. Perhaps people enjoy the variaion in clickety clack sounds of the blade rocking back and forth over ever increasing distances caused by an adjustable stop pin purported to instead offset and help elimate lock rock? Lol.

l liked the knife and wanted my loot to remain with benchmade. So after a pleasant chat with customer service, I was hoping third time would be the charm, despite my instincts and common sense strongly suggesting otherwise, once learning that the culprit adjustable stop pin was an intentional design choice, as incredulous as I found that revelation to be.

Vicar 3 arrived. Sheer perfection in every regard. With the notable exception once again of the lock pin guaranteeing eventual and irreversible lock rock. The other 5 settings once again proved to be mind boggling. All they had to do was the opposite. Namely, each setting should be HIGHER from the center point than its predecessor. Doing so would help combat lock rock. And when all six faces have been utilized in due time and if lock rock still persisted, well, i have no idea, quite frankly, because what seems like common sense was instead reversed and as such doomed to be an abject failure and painfully puzzling. Lol.

In the end, I still refused a refund and kept my loot on deposit with Benchmade, to apply toward the 761, the design of which I liked considerably less than that of the Vicar.

Oh boy. Next up is the saga involving my 761. The stop pin and lock up, I was told, was the flawless product built from the lessons learned by Benchmade from the Vicar's failings. To be continued......
 
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I absolutely loved my Vicar, the third replacement of which Benchmade kindly suggested I return to them, permanently, once again demonstrating they are a powerhouse of customer service excellence and consistency. I will provide further elaboration after addressing your question.

The problem you referenced was not experienced by me, as the factory edge was sufficiently sharp and the grind was as close to perfectly symmetrical as one could hope for. However, a very skilled sharpener, with whom I frequently talk shop, did in fact tell me he struggled and for the most part failed to achieve the extremely sharp edge he attempted to put on his Vicar. He claimed the difficulty was the thickness that lurked relatively close behind the edge that he had underestimated and as such was forced to remove far more steel than anticipated and desired. I saw the final product. Looked like shit. But he blames himself for not adjusting his standard protocol to the geometry of the blade and grind.

As to my quick succession of Vicars, I encountered what I and presumably others deem to be a more significant issue. The lockup and the engineering gaff that I have long since forgiven, due to Benchmade making absolutely certain I was not only beyond happy at the conclusion of the saga, but also because Benchmade exhibited unprecedented honesty and integrity rather than insulting my intelligence with absurd explanations in an effort to save face or assign blame.

Upon receiving my first Vicar, I marvelled at its design, details, ergos and uniqueness. However, after making very light use of it, easily noticeable lock rock surfaced within a week. It was persistent and uninterrupted. Ahhhhhhhh. But an adjustable stop pin I thought simply needed to be turned, in order to achieve an earlier lock up. To my shock, dismay and genuine confusion, I quickly determined that the adjustable stop pin had initially been set to achieve the earliest lock up possible, as all the remaining faces of the stop pin were LOWER and closer to the center point of the pin. Knowing of Benchmade's ordinary engineering prowess, I thought this HAD to be a defective adjustable stop pin. Why? Because why in the world would they consciously elect to not have the faces progressively be designed HIGHER and achieve earlier lock ups, which If done right could help combat the lock rock caused by the rapid galling from the titanium / steel Interaction between the lock bar and the tang. Why include a multi faceted stop pin, the design of which not only failed to offset lock rock, but exponentially increased it, if used. Keep in mind, the knife was at the time of purchase, one of Benchmade's most expensive non gold glass / non limited production knives.

Customer service was with me 100%. No attitude.
No judgements. They promised a happy ending without flinching or hesitating. They told me to send it in and they would do that voodoo that they do so well and take heroic measures if necessary to remedy the issue. After a quick turn around, a brand new Vicar with perfect fit and finish was back in my hand. The lock up was rock solid.......for a week. Once again, it began to behave like a seesaw. Ahhhhhhh. The stop pin is adjustable and last time HAD to be an anomaly. Nope. Same exact bewildering engineering. Genius idea. Laughably absurd implementation. A hexagonal stop pin that had the opposite effect of its intended purpose, due to the other 5 faces causing a later lock up from the initial lockup by reason of them being progressively lower and closer to the center point than the face of the initial lockup. Wtf. Perhaps people enjoy the variaion in clickety clack sounds of the blade rocking back and forth over ever increasing distances caused by an adjustable stop pin purported to instead offset and help elimate lock rock? Lol.

l liked the knife and wanted my loot to remain with benchmade. So after a pleasant chat with customer service, I was hoping third time would be the charm, despite my instincts and common sense strongly suggesting otherwise, once learning that the culprit adjustable stop pin was an intentional design choice, as incredulous as I found that revelation to be.

Vicar 3 arrived. Sheer perfection in every regard. With the notable exception once again of the lock pin guaranteeing eventual and irreversible lock rock. The other 5 settings once again proved to be mind boggling. All they had to do was the opposite. Namely, each setting should be HIGHER from the center point than its predecessor. Doing so would help combat lock rock. And when all six faces have been utilized in due time and if lock rock still persisted, well, i have no idea, quite frankly, because what seems like common sense was instead reversed and as such doomed to be an abject failure and painfully puzzling. Lol.

In the end, I still refused a refund and kept my loot on deposit with Benchmade, to apply toward the 761, the design of which I liked considerably less than that of the Vicar.

Oh boy. Next up is the saga involving my 761. The stop pin and lock up, I was told, was the flawless product built from the lessons learned by Benchmade from the Vicar's failings. To be continued......

Wow haha this is an interesting read
 
I agree, I love my Vicar, but I've never used it much and wasn't aware of this issue. Gonna have to check into that.
 
I agree, I love my Vicar, but I've never used it much and wasn't aware of this issue. Gonna have to check into that.
Please do, Corey. I am very curious as to whether the adjustable hexagonal stop pin on the early model, privately referred to me as an "engineering failure" by Benchmade, was eventually supplanted with one that wasn't repugnant to the laws of math, science and physics, prior to the discontinuance of this otherwise magnificent knife.

The specific problem was indeed remedied by the adjustable stop pin contained in the 761. But never did I possess a knife that suffered from galling at such a rapid pace. It soured the joy of ownership, because although the problems associated with rapid galling, such as lock rock, could now be mitigated due to earlier lockups now made possible by each successive face being progressively higher from the center point, I found myself having to adjust the stop pin to the next higher plane, at least once every 2 weeks, in order to offset the rock lock, attributable to the galling, from light and relatively infrequent use.

In plain english, I was in all honesty frightened and thus hesitant to even gently avail myself of its oh so my smooth engagement system. Why? Because according to my calculations, unless I was content experiencing noticeable lock rock for longer durations than desired by refraining from making the adjustments when necessary or appropriate to offset it, I was on pace to reach the final face and achieve the earliest possible lock up in approximately 16 weeks. What then?

I asked Benchmade's highly knowledgeable, polite and seemingly ubiquitous customer service my question, which was a mathematical certainty, and not merely theoretical. They once again assured me they would without question address the phenomenon and "replace the adjustable stop pin." As much as I appreciated and respected the solution they promised would occur, did this mean that with light use, I would be be sending them my 761 approximately at least once every 16 weeks? And wouldn't the stop pin need to be constructed on an ever thicker basis, to combat the ever increasing dissipation of the titanium caused by the continual galling from interacting with the steel tang? I have enough things in life at this moment to worry about. This would not join the list. As much as I applaud Benchmade for reversing the engineering blunder of the Vicar's puzzling and patently ineffective adjustable stop pin, the one found on the 761 still seemed like an unnecessarily disturbing means of designing and effectuating a reasonably effective lock up.
 
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I took one of mine apart and it seems to me like I only got about 0.001" difference between all the flat sides of the hex. If you rotate it to where the blade would make contact with the point of the hex it moves the lockbar out a bit. I'm not sure if that's the intended way to do it or not though. Seems like that would eventually flatten out the point on the stop pin or wear a groove into the blade. There are 6 points that would have to be wore out before it became useless I guess though.
 
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My Vicar is #484 of first 1000 and has retained a perfectly aligned lock position - blade jimping aligned with liner jimpimg - after a year of moderate use.
 
Mine is a couple of years old and has no play issues or problems to speak of. Blade falls like it's on greased ice, though, so I'm careful to get used to it a bit before I take it camping or hiking.
 
I am simultaneously extremely pleased and mildly jealous to read the affliction does not sound as widespread as my experience, coupled with Benchmade's assessment and refund offer, lead me to believe, due to being a huge fan of the Vicar, vertical blade play issue of the three that passed through my hands notwithstanding, as well as Benchmade, in general. Had the engineer's assessment and prognosis not been conveyed to me, I would tend to think the vertical blade play (which was indeed entirely absent from all three at the time of purchase), had been "muscled" in by me, during usage. Thanks!
 
If I were to concede my heavy handedness may have been a contributing cause of the problem, I still remain puzzled by its particular adjustable stop pin, that even when brand new and completely lacking vertical blade play at the initial setting, utilizing any other setting resulted in the blade behaving like a seesaw. Can anyone explain why it was offered with such a counterintuitive mechanism, the design of which was essentially reversed as to the octagonal adjustable stop pin of the 761. The fact that it is a frame lock versus a liner lock does would not seem to be dispositive as to the issue.
 
I wonder why they wouldn't just redesign the stop pin if they knew it was flawed. I know they discontinued the model now, but seems to me like it would've been a simple fix, if it was a widespread problem.
 
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I wonder why they wouldn't just redesign the stop pin if they knew it was flawed. I know they discontinued the model now, but seems to me like it would've been a simple fix, if it was a widespread problem.

Admittedly, I did not directly satisfy my curiosity regarding the hexagonal maraca maker, despite having had ample opportunity to do so. Although the problem Benchmade took heroic measures to attempt to remedy begged this question in a figurative sense due to a presumable interrelationship, I nevertheless neglected to request a specific answer. The communication remained on a surface level, in terms of depth, which was fine by me, due to their initial goal of providing me with a Vicar able to maintain its initial rock solid lock up for a reasonable duration or, if simply not possible, providing me with a Vicar with a reasonably acceptable amount of vertical play. A little play in any knife I know will be put to work and not placed in a safe does not concern me, regardless of the price.

When all 3 successsively sent to me were returned to them in accordance with their request once the initial solid lock ups rapidly developed enough play to rattle and be felt during use, they were examined and my assertions were acknowledged, though the stop pin was not directly addressed. However, a clue as to Benchmade's assessment of the Vicar, which may have at least partially been in reference to the ineffectiveness of the stop pin design to achieve its intended purpose was conveyed to me, loud and clear. When instead of opting for the refund generously offered to me after an engineer had been consulted and informed my rep of the substantial likelihood of the lockup on a Vicar becoming an issue sooner rather than later and then electing to have the funds applied toward the cost of a 761, my rep told me, unequivocally and virtually verbatim, the lock up of the 761 would remain solid, as the "lessons" learned from mistakes in connection with the Vicar had been taken into consideration when designing and producing the locking mechanism of the 761. The first thing I noticed upon receiving my 761 was the adjustable stop pin functioned in an opposite manner to the Vicar's adjustable stop pin. Each successive setting seemed to truly result in earlier lockups by providing a higher surface, instead of a lower surface, than the preceding setting, therefore effectively offsetting vertical play caused by the rapid galling. Winning, rapid galling notwithstanding.

In fact, I was under the assumption the potential lock up issues and ineffective adjustable lock pin contributed to the discontinuance of the Vicar, but I may be incorrect, as I seem to be the only person in this thread who had encountered significant lock up issues, although I have heard from plenty other former and current owners, online and offline, whose experience was a mirror image of mine. Moreover, the existence of the potential problem was confirmed to me by Benchmade when I deliberated giving up and applying the funds toward a 761.
 
If any Benchmade model deserved an Axis lock, it was this one. I don't understand why there wasn't an Adamas-sized Axis lock installed on this model. Sure, put a liner lock on a lightweight gentlemans folder, but a big (seemingly) heavy duty knife like the Vicar should have come with Benchmade's best lock.
 
If any Benchmade model deserved an Axis lock, it was this one. I don't understand why there wasn't an Adamas-sized Axis lock installed on this model. Sure, put a liner lock on a lightweight gentlemans folder, but a big (seemingly) heavy duty knife like the Vicar should have come with Benchmade's best lock.

100% agree. Keep all things the same EXCEPT put an Axis lock and PUH-LEEEEEZ make the pocket clip reversible. Make this beauty lefty friendly and I'll buy 6 of them... well at least 2.
 
As an avid fan of the Axis lock, which seems to be evolving as per the 781, my opinion is as follows:

Benchmade should stick to what it does best and as such, design, develop and implement an uber version of the Axis lock, containing the enlarged, thickened and consequently stronger hardware of the Axis lock utilized by the Adamas, however, with thicker and more durable Omega Springs that are either configured in an improved and updated version of the traditional configuration, or, which further develop and make use of the new reconfigured version found in the 781, involving the coil and box approach, assuming it stands the test of time as far as lock strength and absence of blade play in any direction and of any nature is concerned.

Is the Axis lock perfect? Nope. But on a comparative basis, I have experienced far less problems and concerns, with the Axis lock, than with frame locks and liner locks.

Thus, would you prefer an uber version of the Axis taking into consideration and remedying any shortcomings, problems or issues that may have prevented it from reaching its full potential, or would you instead gamble on the next over-engineered frame lock, which may for example contain not only an adjustable lock pin (761, etc.), but also an adjustable lock face (928), which require the user to conduct simultaneous interrelated quadratic equations, fresh out the box, in order to attempt to establish an acceptable lock up. LOL.

Genuine world class steak houses will often have one or more chicken dishes on the menu. But their most impressive and critically acclaimed offerings that cause customers to target and flock to such highly reputable and dedicated steak houses, are steaks.
 
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