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Wow, this thing is amazing. I can see why just using the wave can scare people. This thing is quicker than any auto!
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So I Just "Mastered" the Wave
- Thread starter IGotStabbed
- Start date
It never ceases to amaze me just how quick the waved presentation is.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2009
- Messages
- 11,409
My only gripe is the lack of a reversible clip on some of these. Now I don't know about you guys, but the tanto on my CQC Super-7w begs me to hold it in a reverse grip for stabbing. It also feels much faster, smoother, and "at the ready" when you pull it out in a reverse grip. To understand what I'm talking about, try deploying the knife with your back against the floor or wall the usual way, then try holding the knife in reverse in your pocket and doing the same thing. The difference is quite literally night and day and will set you in a mad frenzy to find a drill press to drill the pocket clip holes on the other side(don't have one handy though).
yeah, but the only downside to the reverse grip method is that you run the risk of the blade coming open in your pocket as it doesn't have the seam of your pocket to rest against. and especially with the wave sticking out, the chances of the blade opening in your pocket gets pretty high. which means that you'd jam your hands into your pocket and be greeted by the tip of the blade and that is a sure fire way to ruin your day.
stabman
Gold Member
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- Sep 17, 2007
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- 21,327
That happened to me with my old Bullnose Karambit. Reached in for change and STAB.
Didn't stab too deep, but I don't carry with that placement anymore.
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- Jul 11, 2007
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- 849
yeap, I'm too very worried about this. I only carry my Leek with the safety on. Leeks are easily opened while in pocket.
The problem isn't the clip placement on the knife; it's the manual of arms. You need to train with your knife more. The knife should roll in your palm to the reverse grip effortlessly with the center of the grip rotating in your fingers and reversing. This isn't a knife design issue or a clip issue; it's 100% training with your knife.
Back to the wall, arm against the wall, laying down; it doesn't matter. It's a hand manipulation, not a clip placement issue.
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- Jul 22, 2009
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- 11,409
It's a physics issue. See, when you pull the knife out of your pocket, because of the way the hook catches the pocket, you need to pull your knife back a little bit or the knife will come out without opening at all. The problem with your back against the floor or wall is that you don't have the space needed to pull back. Having made the attempt several times, I find that either the tip of the knife will be obstructed by the wall/floor behind me and stop the blade from opening completely, or my arm will be prevented from moving backwards and the knife comes straight out, not catching the pocket at all and thus not opening.
Also, perhaps it's because my CQC 7w is a "super" model with a considerably larger handle, but I find it takes about 2 seconds to flip from a forward grip to reverse. Certainly I might be able to do it in maybe half the time with a month or two of practicing the movement, but speaking as a lazy bastard, I would prefer to have the blade at the ready the second it's out of the pocket and spend that month of training on something else, like where to stab the thing and a wide defensive slash rather than flipping it into the "correct" position.
I find the blade also opens more reliably with some force. So rather than halting my momentum from opening the knife and moving the knife in the opposite direction towards the attacker, isn't it more efficient to use the momentum from opening the knife to bring it closer to the perp?
To reiterate, in a forward grip you pull the knife out and back, then bring it towards the attacker. In a reverse grip, the knife is already moving towards the attacker when it gets out of your pocket.
I feel like I'm arguing over petty details to shave off a few seconds of time, though some people would agree that every second counts.
Again, your arm doesn't need to come back at all; it's a wrist motion, if you wish. This is a training issue, not a design issue.
Bearing in mind that if one is down to a folding pocket knife as a means of defense, one is already at the wrong end of the stick and in dire straights, one must also consider that if reliance on the wave for opening the knife is essential to one's life, then one's future is none too bright. This is to say that while it's nice that the knife *may* open with the wave feature, one shouldn't be relying on it in the first place at the draw, and impeding one's arm travel doesn't impact that concept.
Don't get so wrapped into the moment that the knife becomes your focus. If you're facing an attacker, create space with the other hand. If the knife isn't open, use it as a kubotan or impact tool, without having to slow down the fight to figure out if you have a blade. Don't let the presence, or lack thereof, deter you from your attack.
Tip-up, blade to the outside, allows the mechanics of the thumb to open off the stud if the wave doesn't open the knife. Tip-down, blade to the inside, allows the mechanics of the thumb to open of the stud if the wave doesn't open the knife. Lacking either of these openings, then a flick brings the blade to service. Forward or reverse grips are palm manipulations.
Bearing in mind that if one is down to a folding pocket knife as a means of defense, one is already at the wrong end of the stick and in dire straights, one must also consider that if reliance on the wave for opening the knife is essential to one's life, then one's future is none too bright. This is to say that while it's nice that the knife *may* open with the wave feature, one shouldn't be relying on it in the first place at the draw, and impeding one's arm travel doesn't impact that concept.
Don't get so wrapped into the moment that the knife becomes your focus. If you're facing an attacker, create space with the other hand. If the knife isn't open, use it as a kubotan or impact tool, without having to slow down the fight to figure out if you have a blade. Don't let the presence, or lack thereof, deter you from your attack.
Tip-up, blade to the outside, allows the mechanics of the thumb to open off the stud if the wave doesn't open the knife. Tip-down, blade to the inside, allows the mechanics of the thumb to open of the stud if the wave doesn't open the knife. Lacking either of these openings, then a flick brings the blade to service. Forward or reverse grips are palm manipulations.
pvicenzi
Basic Member
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- Dec 25, 2008
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- 6,666
That happened to me with my old Bullnose Karambit. Reached in for change and STAB.
Didn't stab too deep, but I don't carry with that placement anymore.
Yup, carry waved knives properly. I had one unclipped and deap in my pocket. When I reached in and slid my hand against the partially open blade, well the resulting cut required eight stitches. Dumb? Hell yes.
stabman
Gold Member
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- Sep 17, 2007
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- 21,327
Yes, I felt dumb afterwards.
My old P'kal opened in my pocket before as well.
No more "waving forwards" carry for me.
I know someone will say "Place it against the seam in the front, near the crotch!"
That might solve the pocket opening issue, but it jabs you in the groin when you kick. NOT cool.
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- Jan 13, 2010
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- 1,379
It's more of a control issue. Are you saying when under the pressure of someone coming at you you will be able to draw and "rotate the knife" in your palm? To much loss of control IMO. I agree that it should have the ability to be drawn in reverse grip.
I see you draw a knife and then go to flip it in your hand all I have to do is a nudge or a slap and you no longer have a knife in your hand. IMO thats got nothing to do with training and a lot to do with common sense.
If I draw a knife in a conflict, it's going to be because you're close enough that your seeing the knife won't be an issue. Regardless of the grip, the duration of the conflict won't be long enough for you to address the grip, much less take advantage of my grip.
Obviously nobody is stupid enough to hold a knife out to an opponent and make small motor motions to reverse the grip, while waiting for the knife to be taken away.
Again, reversing the grip is a matter of training and skill...not the design of the knife.
Obviously nobody is stupid enough to hold a knife out to an opponent and make small motor motions to reverse the grip, while waiting for the knife to be taken away.
Again, reversing the grip is a matter of training and skill...not the design of the knife.
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Unless (however unlikely) you happen to be fighting someone who has also trained and has some skill.
Irrelevant.
The skill of the opponent has no bearing on your skill. Either you can, or you can't. If you can, you may live. If you can't, you won't.
The issue of forward or reverse grip is superfluous, particularly with respect to the wave. Generally speaking, if one is going to reverse the grip then it's a flourish or movement away from the attacker, not toward, them, generally done as one moves.
Whether the knife is drawn or produced from the outset in reverse grip is irrelevant. If one has a different grip, then start there. The important part is having the knive. Which grip is largely semantic. Stabs, slashes, cuts, blocks, and other techniques, practices, and acts can be has from either forward or reverse, or other grips.
Unless you're stuck in the ability to only fight from one grip, and so rigidly set in your ways that you require an attacker to address you your way (it doesn't work like this on the street), then you adapt to the attacker.
Skill of the opponent is a function of distance and timing; that is, the distance and timing you use in addressing your attacker. This is also a function of your skill, awareness, and attitude.
Not the design of the knife.
If you train with your knife, any shortcomings you presently perceive will vanish. Remember, a poor carpenter blames his tools.
The skill of the opponent has no bearing on your skill. Either you can, or you can't. If you can, you may live. If you can't, you won't.
The issue of forward or reverse grip is superfluous, particularly with respect to the wave. Generally speaking, if one is going to reverse the grip then it's a flourish or movement away from the attacker, not toward, them, generally done as one moves.
Whether the knife is drawn or produced from the outset in reverse grip is irrelevant. If one has a different grip, then start there. The important part is having the knive. Which grip is largely semantic. Stabs, slashes, cuts, blocks, and other techniques, practices, and acts can be has from either forward or reverse, or other grips.
Unless you're stuck in the ability to only fight from one grip, and so rigidly set in your ways that you require an attacker to address you your way (it doesn't work like this on the street), then you adapt to the attacker.
Skill of the opponent is a function of distance and timing; that is, the distance and timing you use in addressing your attacker. This is also a function of your skill, awareness, and attitude.
Not the design of the knife.
If you train with your knife, any shortcomings you presently perceive will vanish. Remember, a poor carpenter blames his tools.