So, im told council axes are cast, but the website says hot drop-forged.

B

bored2deth

Joined
Feb 27, 2011
Messages
1,020
Which is it? Im wanting a double-bit for work, and a velvicu for myself. I find it hard to swallow that axe heads would be cast.
 
Forged, not cast. I don't know of any reputable axes that are cast. There are some tomahawks that are supposedly cast stainless steel (Allan Foundry, listed at Ragnar).
 
Bridger,

Have you worked with Keech axes before? I was working on one recently and thought something was unusual about the steel... I wondered if it was cast but thought it was unlikely. I found the head extremely difficult to sharpen with a file. Wondering if there is any correlation?


thanks

wdmn
 
Bridger said:
Keech casts racing axes. They have some specially developed process though.
Click to expand...

I had forgotten about those racing axes.

gyoul2 said:
ok guys i am a competitive woodchopper from Queensland in Australia and i can lay all your questions to rest the reason for different hardness in the steels and axes is of 2 major contributing factors.
1) the composition of the steel it is made with the carbon content ECT
2)
A) the process used to make the axe Eg. the keech and keesteel axes are cast axes where the molten steel is poured into casts much like some other older brands and the keech steel used is K2 steel making is extremely hard infact hard enough to cut other steel

B)the tuatahi are forged axes meaning they start from a block of steel which is then heated and compacted to a base shape making is some what harder than when it started in the tuatahi factory still done carfully by hand as well as some other high end makes but rare by hand in our days but usually done in one or two hits now by a machine press as to make it quick then the edge is tempered this is what most cheap store bought axes are now as it can be done very and cheaply it tempering is not exact the results can be absolute rubbish like so many store bought axes

C)the third way is milling which is also done by some top end axe makes IE Mr Mick Osborne who makes Osborne racing axes it is first started with just a single block of tool steel and the the block is milled away by diamond bits and cnc machines to create the axe head

D) the final way is a combination of 2 or more such as the tuatahi 2 piece axe where the eye and pole of the axe is good quality steel but not hardened but the head there is no blade is made seperaltly then screwed on or cold weld ECT
Click to expand...
 
More about Keech Castings and their Keesteel racing axes:

"...This was a new organisation, setting out on a manufacture new to the country and untrammeled by the theories and beliefs that go hand in hand with the advantages of tradition. Heretofore, edged tools had always been forged, a process having its limitations and necessitating much cumbersome machinery – indeed, this method is still used by all other tool manufacturers here and abroad. A period of intensive research by Keesteel brought success in the production of a steel so improved in character that, for the first time in history, edged casting. The results were revolutionary – the Keesteel process, completely evolved and developed in Australia by Australians, made it possible to produce quality tools cheaper than ever before."

from http://www.nswaxemen.asn.au/Articles/Idealaxe.html


I wanted to learn more about "K2 steel" and found that it's a steel "quality" that can be specified in addition to the steel grade. The steel "quality" rating corresponds to a minimum or guaranteed result from the Charpy impact test (a measure of the steel's toughness). K2 is on the high end of quality for non-alloy structural steels.

"...a steel quality K2 means a guaranteed value of 40 joules [absorbed energy before fracture during testing] at -20 degrees C (test temperature)" [about 4 below zero Fahrenheit]

quoted from Fatigue Design of Steel and Composite Structures, by Alain Nussbaumer, Luis Borges, Laurence Davaine, John Wiley & Sons, 2012
http://books.google.com/books?id=G4VaZdbOXv4C&lpg=SA6-PA3&ots=7xITwMMyVt&dq=k2%20steel%20grade&pg=SA6-PA3#v=onepage&q=k2&f=false
 
Thanks for the helpful posts Mr. Tall.

Does anyone know how to go about sharpening a Keesteel head? It actually broke a couple of teeth on a new grobet file (standard of 60-62 HRc)...
 
wdmn said:
Bridger,

Have you worked with Keech axes before? I was working on one recently and thought something was unusual about the steel... I wondered if it was cast but thought it was unlikely. I found the head extremely difficult to sharpen with a file. Wondering if there is any correlation?


thanks

wdmn
Click to expand...

Sorry, I've got no firsthand experience with Keech or any racing axes unfortunately. Hopefully that will change. I'm going back to school in January and my university has a timbersports team.
 
So moisten the metal cutting wheel on a grinder, and just take it a few passes at a time? Or do you mean a water cooled traditional grinder?
 
wdmn said:
So moisten the metal cutting wheel on a grinder, and just take it a few passes at a time? Or do you mean a water cooled traditional grinder?
Click to expand...

Wet grinders are low speed. New electric ones are available today (Grizzly, Tormek), and vintage hand-cranked grinders (with water drip or bath) should be able to do the job.

If you don't need to remove a lot of material, then you might get away with using a big carborundum stone like this:

sharpeningstonewithhandle.jpg


A coarse diamond bench "stone" would also wear down that hard steel, at a higher cost.
 
wdmn said:
Or do you mean a water cooled traditional grinder?
Click to expand...

This. At work we have a massive old 10" grinder with a water jet attachment. It's great for sharpening tools quick while keeping them cool. Unlike some new grinders it runs at high speed. Water bath grinders must run slowly or you'll take a shower using it. I've overfilled the one at work and taken a shower. The stone shouldn't touch the water. A pump feeds the water to the top of the stone. I'd post pics but I'm off for a couple weeks due to minor surgery.
 
I was told by a google search that carborundum stone is the same as a silcon carbide stone... is this true? I've got the edge pretty much cleared of chips, but it's extremely dull, I have to completely replace the bevel. How confident are you (asking the forum generally) that such a stone would be up to the task?
 
Yes, carborundum is silicon carbide. It will take a long time to replace a bevel with just a stone but it will eventually do the job.
 
Thanks pegs; how I wish I had one of those variable speed grinders...

any guesstimates about how many hours we're talking to accomplish that with a stone?
 
Do you have access to a belt grinder? Axes have a lot of mass and it's really not hard to keep them from overheating. That would get you in the ballpark and then you could finish with files, etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top