I've been gone from this forum for a number of years -and I sorta assume the sudden proliferation of this D2 steel in PRC manufactured knives has been discussed. I've tried a search and not getting the obvious question answered : anybody tested various PRC knives and come to any conclusions about just how likely it is that this is D2 steel in the blades advertised as such ?
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
So much D2 blade steel -for real ?
- Thread starter audiopile
- Start date
I have 2 knives in D2, a QSP and a Rat 2. Obviously my experience is quite limited, but the QSP seems pretty good.
Generally Chinese D2 has gained a reputation of being extremely hit and miss. I believe there has been some testing of whether the D2 is actually what is advertised and the majority of it seems legit. Needless to say the bigger more popular Chinese brands seem to be using D2 although the heat treatments may not be optimal. Compared to "good" D2 from custom makers they tend towards the soft side, meaning lower edge retention but some are better than others.
For the price, they are adequate IMO, but there are probably better choices if you are looking at budget Chinese brands.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2021
- Messages
- 1,249
Definitely a case of all D2 steels not being equal. Especially with Chinese steel, the quality of D2 steel is all over the place, so you have to trust in companies before the steel label. It's almost as bad as the "Damascus" label, where you have to do a bit of digging to figure out exactly what kind of steel quality you're actually getting.
Chronovore
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 11,295
The answer is "yes". Lots of Chinese brands have been tested via XRF to confirm steel stamps. Some have also been tested for hardness. Generally, the major brands can be trusted. Here is a spreadsheet with results:
docs.google.com
Unfortunately, there are issues with performance. Even with decent hardness, Chinese D2 does tend to vary and often falls short of the reputation that helped it to become popular. There has been a lot of discussion as to why this is. Between other people doing cut testing and my own experiences, I feel like Chinese D2 can be a good replacement for 8Cr13Mov at the right price. For instance, Petrified Fish gets one of the better heat treatments and has some decent knives around $30-40.
Otherwise, there are better choices. For instance, more Chinese companies are now importing 14C28N. It tends to perform well and that might have to do with ease of getting a good heat treatment. Another alternative is 9Cr18Mov. While normally a decent budget steel, WE has perfected the heat treatment for it. It's sort of like the difference between regular 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, but from a better starting point. As a result, the Civivi and Sencut knives in 9Cr18Mov get surprisingly good edge retention.
Knife PMI and Rockwell Results
Sheet1 Less Than Range,Within Range,Above Range,✓ Steel Match,X No Match,LOD Limit of Detection Rockwell Hardness ,Steel Type,Ti Grade,Test Date,Steel Element Breakdown,Element information provided by: InterestingEngineering.com Steel,HRC,Brand,Model,Rockwell Advertised,Aimed Hardness,Rockwell T...
Unfortunately, there are issues with performance. Even with decent hardness, Chinese D2 does tend to vary and often falls short of the reputation that helped it to become popular. There has been a lot of discussion as to why this is. Between other people doing cut testing and my own experiences, I feel like Chinese D2 can be a good replacement for 8Cr13Mov at the right price. For instance, Petrified Fish gets one of the better heat treatments and has some decent knives around $30-40.
Otherwise, there are better choices. For instance, more Chinese companies are now importing 14C28N. It tends to perform well and that might have to do with ease of getting a good heat treatment. Another alternative is 9Cr18Mov. While normally a decent budget steel, WE has perfected the heat treatment for it. It's sort of like the difference between regular 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, but from a better starting point. As a result, the Civivi and Sencut knives in 9Cr18Mov get surprisingly good edge retention.
Last edited:
Oklahoma Outlaw
BANNED
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2021
- Messages
- 1,920
Medford’s D2 is the real deal.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,750
I don't buy anything from the PRC if I can help it. Taiwan - which is not part of communist China, despite what dictator Xi claims - produces some of the best knives you can find IMHO.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2013
- Messages
- 739
this chart is really interesting. Thanks for postingThe answer is "yes". Lots of Chinese brands have been tested via XRF to confirm steel stamps. Some have also been tested for hardness. Generally, the major brands can be trusted. Here is a spreadsheet with results:
Knife PMI and Rockwell Results
Sheet1 Less Than Range,Within Range,Above Range,✓ Steel Match,X No Match,LOD Limit of Detection Rockwell Hardness ,Steel Type,Ti Grade,Test Date,Steel Element Breakdown,Element information provided by: InterestingEngineering.com Steel,HRC,Brand,Model,Rockwell Advertised,Aimed Hardness,Rockwell T...
Unfortunately, there are issues with performance. Even with decent hardness, Chinese D2 does tend to vary and often falls short of the reputation that helped it to become popular. There has been a lot of discussion as to why this is. Between other people doing cut testing and my own experiences, I feel like Chinese D2 can be a good replacement for 8Cr13Mov at the right price. For instance, Petrified Fish gets one of the better heat treatments and has some decent knives around $30-40.
Otherwise, there are better choices. For instance, more Chinese companies are now importing 14C28N. It tends to perform well and that might have to do with ease of getting a good heat treatment. Another alternative is 9Cr18Mov. While normally a decent budget steel, WE has perfected the heat treatment for it. It's sort of like the difference between regular 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, but from a better starting point. As a result, the Civivi and Sencut knives in 9Cr18Mov get surprisingly good edge retention.
This was a $35.00 knife delivered.
that was before the Trump tariffs doubled the price on Chinese knives. And, which tariffs won't ever be lifted because the Federal Government found another way to increase taxes without any real repercussions.
The above knife was advertised as D2, marked as D2, and it is a great knife for $35.00. And, I can't really tell much of a difference in edge holding from this
When you could buy a Chinese D2 knife for under $40.00 delivered, and it takes an edge and holds it, I don't see how anyone can complain. Maybe the steel is as claimed, or not. If not, the steels are still pretty good. The posters here would know, but the Chinese must be making a lot of D2 steel, for other applications, and maybe that is why the prices are so good. I like the Chinese D2 knives I own, I get them sharp, and they cut.
that was before the Trump tariffs doubled the price on Chinese knives. And, which tariffs won't ever be lifted because the Federal Government found another way to increase taxes without any real repercussions.
The above knife was advertised as D2, marked as D2, and it is a great knife for $35.00. And, I can't really tell much of a difference in edge holding from this
When you could buy a Chinese D2 knife for under $40.00 delivered, and it takes an edge and holds it, I don't see how anyone can complain. Maybe the steel is as claimed, or not. If not, the steels are still pretty good. The posters here would know, but the Chinese must be making a lot of D2 steel, for other applications, and maybe that is why the prices are so good. I like the Chinese D2 knives I own, I get them sharp, and they cut.
Chronovore
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 11,295
CH Knives are generally the real deal. I don't know a whole lot about their company but they've repeatedly tested true. One thing to note is that Eafengrow had been the exclusive distributor for CH on Amazon for years. While the overwhelming majority of Eafengrow's knives are rebranded garbage with fake steel stamps (see the chart posted above), the CH knives retained CH markings and were the only safe bet in EF's catalog. I'm sure they do other OEM work.
Coincidentally, CH makes the premium line for MTech. Just in case anyone hasn't heard of MTech, they are a long-running exemplar of "gas station" and "mall ninja" knives, usually with blades in 3Cr13, 420, etc. I only recently saw that they had launched a premium line and with CH making it, I couldn't resist. Shopping around, I found one of their titanium framelocks with D2 and ceramic bearings for around $50.
I'll also renew my recommendation for Petrified Fish. You've got to shop around but a lot of their knives hang around that $35 mark. They mostly use ceramic bearings and real Chinese D2 at reasonable hardness. (I sent a PF818 over to Outpost 76 for cut testing and performance was very good for Chinese D2.) They have a few slightly more expensive knives in K110 for the people concerned about Chinese D2. They also just released a front flipper in 14C28N and announced plans for something in 154CM.
Dergyll
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2021
- Messages
- 2,433
I like what "Chinese" D2 is doing to US manufacturers. Companies like Cricket, Buck and Gerber etc need to realize they cant keep peddling 1.4116 and 8cr 7cr whatever for 60-80$.
Nothing wrong with those steels, but the competition makes them get better.
Nothing wrong with those steels, but the competition makes them get better.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2011
- Messages
- 30,032
whats Buck got in 1.4116, 8cr13mov, 7cr17mov for 60 to 80 us dollars?
the stuff they got from China in the 7cr steel is 30+ usd range.
These imported knives with alleged D2 look pretty good in pictures. Compared to what the major brands get from similar sources and sell for similar prices I'm thinking there has to be a difference. My theory is that the difference is in the quality of materials, the quality of production, and how well they stand behind their product.
So if I was going to buy a CJRB or Civivi or Steel Will as a test, which one would be most likely to have nearly real D2 in it?
So if I was going to buy a CJRB or Civivi or Steel Will as a test, which one would be most likely to have nearly real D2 in it?
These days sure, Buck specifically may have never been the worst offender of the bunch, true, but it's pretty clear that the increasing availability of nicely made knives in decent steels has forced a shift in the overall quality of what the knife industry feels comfortable trying to sell us. Ten years ago things were a lot more bland, flat, and bleak. The performance has improved as much as the available aesthetic styles and flourishes have diversified.
You don't have to worry about materials with any of those companies. CJRB/Artisan has been known for sometimes hit or miss QC, but they're generally pretty good knives with pretty interesting designs sometimes. Steel Will is pretty decent, but I haven't heard much from them lately. Their designs rarely spoke to me enough to keep my attention and the ones that did I ended up forgetting about. I really love a few Civivi knives I've picked up, like the Appalachian Drifter II, Badlands Vagabond, and Ortis, and Lumi
Chronovore
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 11,295
This is the hidden gift.
Good and bad are relative here. I remember when 8Cr13Mov was a welcome upgrade over AUS-6 in Kershaw knives. That was a long time ago. Now, most people would consider AUS-6 a fail in current production models. The issue is that 8Cr13Mov has become a fail versus stuff like Chinese D2, 9Cr18Mov, 14C28N, etc. The last few years might have put the final nails in the coffin but brands like Kizer and Civivi still aren't there to compete in the sporting goods sections of Walmart, Dick's, etc. Hopefully, the pandemic has gotten more people shopping online.
Chronovore
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 11,295
Check the chart posted above. If you are in a hurry or can't read a Google Doc spreadsheet on your device, all of the companies you mentioned use real D2. In my experience, the fit, finish, and overall quality will be best with Civivi.
Civivi has become the mid-tier brand for WE, which is highly and rightly regarded for their manufacturing. WE recently launched the Sencut brand to take over their entry-level knives in D2 and 9Cr18Mov. Personally, I'd recommend WE's 9Cr18Mov over any of the Chinese D2. It gets a fantastic heat treatment, holds an edge very well, and has excellent corrosion resistance.
If you want a recommendation, my 2021 pick for best knife under $50 is the Sencut Snap. It has smooth action on ceramic bearings, good and fairly neutral ergonomics, and a nice blade. It is available in G-10, Micarta, and the attractive wood scales pictured below.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2018
- Messages
- 1,437
If a Chinese knife is advertised with K110 steel, if it comes from a Bohler factory (rather than just being regular D2), it almost certainly came out of Bohler's Chinese production rather than being imported from Europe. Even if you assume you're getting Bohler K110 and not random Chinese D2, the heat treat is still from the knife manufacturer, so the issues related to heat treat don't change. And since the reputable brands are using D2 when they say they are, I don't know see using K110 as gaining much of anything.