So Sick Of Poor Heat Treats!

Uath

Uath

Joined
Oct 25, 2003
Messages
703
Just bought another hand forged knife. I don't buy many and carry them for years sometimes, before the fever heats again and I start shopping.
I love hand forged knives, but, once again, I stuck the tip of this new one in an oak log and bent it over like a #$%@^&% fishhook. I bent it right back just as easily. I don't spend over 100$ on a knife and expect that. THERE IS NO EXCUSE BLADE-SMITHS!!
I'm going to give them a chance to make it right, if not, I'm going to trash them.

From now on, when I buy a hand-forged knife, I will message the following:

I test all the knives I buy.
I'm going to plunge the tip in hardened oak wood and bend it over. Then I'm going to take twelve of the hardest swings I can get into that same wood, choosing a knot to focus on. I will hid the sides of the blade, the back of the blade, everywhere else I can hit (except the handle, I mean come on). I will wear gloves and ram it into plywood. I will put it between two porch boards and flex it (5 degrees is fine). After all that, I will chop a copper tube. I don't want to see nicks, bends, or even much scratching.

If you don't think this knife will hold up to that, then don't sell it to me
 
very disappointing. hopefully theyll make it right for ya, Sir.
 
You will probably need to increase your budget to get a hand forged knife that performs to your standard.

They're out there for sure but when you say "over 100$" it's a bit of a red flag.
 
Agreed.

With rare exceptions 100 bucks for a hand forged mid size knfe screams Pakistan to me.

The exception would be a few makers I've seen on the forums who hand forge and sell for reasonable prices like Daado.
Danke42 said:
You will probably need to increase your budget to get a hand forged knife that performs to your standard.

They're out there for sure but when you say "over 100$" it's a bit of a red flag.
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You get what you pay for! I have several fixed blades that would easily hold up to your abuse (really what it is), they're not hand forged but they were not cheap by any means.
 
Don't take the $100 too literally, I was just using that figure in a literary sense. Pakistan is getting hard to spot these days. They masquerade as Americans, Canadians, whatever... They even take the name of an other established forge! I know what to look for with them. Their knives have a certain look.

I've had great luck with some of the Eastern European blade-smiths. I've bought from two countries: Slovakia, and Bulgaria. Really quality stuff.

Also, don't assume that $1500 blades are worth a crap either! Present the same conditions as I did before you buy that one. See how many takers you get.

There is no excuse. The tests I've proposed aren't even that taxing.
 
Just to be completely clear when you say hand forged you mean a guy who's fully hammering the blade out from raw. No grinding blanks.

It's true that some small undiscovered guy can produce an awesome blade but the smaller and more obscure the smith the better the chance of a bad batch making it out the door.
 
Yeah, I agree with these posts. While I feel sympathetic to the OP, since every knife should be tough enough to pass a tip test like that, these days $100 to $150 won't take you very far with a custom hand forged knife. And it might depend to a degree on where it's made. If made in USA, consider that the maker probably spent a day to a day and a half working on such a knife + sheath. So if it was 10 hours total, for a $100 knife, that comes to $10 an hour for labor. Even less when you take into account the cost of materials and overhead, like the utility bill for the furnace and wear and tear and maintenance of equipment used during the process. $10 an hour might be great in India, but in USA, not so much.

For $100 to $150, the OP is probably better off buying a factory made knife. TOPS, Ontario, Kabar. Windlass Steelcrafts in India makes some knives that are hand forged, some even pass the British Proof test. You wouldn't get the "one of a kind" vibe but you'd get a knife that passes the tip bending test (most of the time).
 
Uath said:
Also, don't assume that $1500 blades are worth a crap either! Present the same conditions as I did before you buy that one. See how many takers you get.
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Yep, it all comes down to the maker, how much do you trust that maker to do a good heat.
 
Research about the maker, looking for reviews, will keep you away from the direction of subpar heat-treatments. It also helps to deal with a craftsman who is very active on the forums, not just in the exchange. At least in my experience.
 
Danke42 said:
Just to be completely clear when you say hand forged you mean a guy who's fully hammering the blade out from raw. No grinding blanks.

It's true that some small undiscovered guy can produce an awesome blade but the smaller and more obscure the smith the better the chance of a bad batch making it out the door.
Click to expand...

The small undiscovered guys are exactly who I'm talking to. That's what I love. They're the potential artists, I want it to be them. To tell the truth, I would rather it be made by a guy with a hobby forge and another job. I know it sounds weird, but they're the ones I seek out. I'm an artist myself. It's really an art thing, but they need to learn this lesson first and fast "It's gotta be tough."

I'm serious, before I buy, I want them to understand how I'll test their knife and that I'll return it if it fails those tests. I think that's fair. I wish everyone did it.
 
Uath said:
The small undiscovered guys are exactly who I'm talking to. That's what I love. They're the potential artists, I want it to be them. To tell the truth, I would rather it be made by a guy with a hobby forge and another job. I know it sounds weird, but they're the ones I seek out. I'm an artist myself. It's really an art thing, but they need to learn this lesson first and fast "It's gotta be tough."

I'm serious, before I buy, I want them to understand how I'll test their knife and that I'll return it if it fails those tests. I think that's fair. I wish everyone did it.
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I just reviewed a couple knives from Darrin Sanders Darrin Sanders . He's a craftsman here on the forum. Drop him a line and I'm sure he can get you sorted. I'm going to send some money his way after the holidays for one of my own.

If his styles don't do it for you, there's plenty of other makers here on the forums as well that are reputable. I'm all for giving the underdog a shot, but maybe give him his second or third shot. So you've got a bit of feedback to go on.
 
I like a good tough knife but really? ... if you want a crowbar and axe then buy one. These are knives cutting tools ... I agree if a knife bent so easily theres a problem but with a couple exceptions if you send that to a makers ... most are gonna see a huge red flag and just tell you to take your demands elsewhere.

When did a knife become expected to chop a car in half or to take severe abuse and if its not perfect after you cry it's a bad knife?

SMH ...

there are a few brands that would build you a knife and would take alot but after your rant ... even those are not gonna show signs of a roll or something ...
 
Yeah, if I’m a maker, and a future customer came to my shop and demanded a knife that will look like new and slice Phone book paper after those abusive ‘tests’.......I’m showing him the door.
Don’t think OP is looking for a knife at all.
 
Well it just seems unrealistic in so many ways. You wouldn't hunt brown bears with a BB gun ... use the right tool for the job ... and if you refuse to then expect failure.
 
This popped up on my alerts so I'll reply. If you decide you want to discuss the possibilities of a knife let me know. I'd be glad to make you a knife. It'll be more than $100 but it'll come with a lifetime warranty covering material defects and craftsmanship. It does not cover abuse or neglect. I consider chopping metals (even copper) abuse. When you start guaranteeing your knives to chop metals you're setting yourself up for misery. Will my knives take it? Pretty sure they will but I wont guarantee it. Any of the other things you mentioned are fine. I'll personally stick the tip about .5" deep in a piece of wood and pry it out sideways before I even ship it out. Like I said, if you'd like, contact me for a no strings attached quote. My contact info. is listed at the bottom of all my posts.

BTW, thanks Bryce for the kind words.
 
I like your attitude. A skillful blade smith can make an excellent blade with low price. My blades have excellent heat treatment, and they withstand a lot of abuse. I do not hand forge the blades, they are made of steel plate, but otherwise my knives are hand made and the price is less than 100$.
 
I wonder- I'm guessing that 99% of the real (not Pakistan) custom knives that are bought and sold are never used for anything but to look at. So nobody would know if the heat treat is right or not. And the more expensive the blade the less likely it is to be used. In my own knife collection I have a big group of knives that I use and another big group of knives that I don't use except to look at.

I don't know what the OP was buying but I agree that a $100 forged blade might be questionable.
 
bdmicarta said:
I wonder- I'm guessing that 99% of the real (not Pakistan) custom knives that are bought and sold are never used for anything but to look at. So nobody would know if the heat treat is right or not. And the more expensive the blade the less likely it is to be used. In my own knife collection I have a big group of knives that I use and another big group of knives that I don't use except to look at.

I don't know what the OP was buying but I agree that a $100 forged blade might be questionable.
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This is why I suggested Busse or JK Knives.
They can both take just about anything you dish out.

Busse is production with a near limitless warranty, but you are stuck with production models.

JK Knives will work for a living, not break the bank, and will take and laugh at just about anything you do to them (within reason, no shooting them with a rifle, that's what a Busse is for). But since it can be custom from the ground up, you can have your knife made to your spec.
 
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