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SOG X-42 steel!
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
Allen E. Treat
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- Oct 4, 2001
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Bear :
BG-42 is a radical departure in the world of blade steel(s); it's also used, if I recall correctly, in the production of ball bearings. I had an X-42 auto clip made with it ; that sucker was shavin' sharp & took a grandiose edge. Hope this helps, if not, e-mail Ron Andersen at SOG :
ron@sogknives.com
He can certainly clarify!
AET
BG-42 is a radical departure in the world of blade steel(s); it's also used, if I recall correctly, in the production of ball bearings. I had an X-42 auto clip made with it ; that sucker was shavin' sharp & took a grandiose edge. Hope this helps, if not, e-mail Ron Andersen at SOG :
ron@sogknives.com
He can certainly clarify!
AET
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2002
- Messages
- 426
I have had a X-42 feild knife for a few months....mine is actually a factory second, but you can barely tell.
I use it around the house mostly, never had a problem with it chipping but I havent pushed it to the limits or anything like that. It was the sharpest knife out of the box I have ever bought and it shows no edge damage. I have yet to sharpen it save for touchups. I may be wrong but SOG orgiginally heat treated them to a rockwell of 62 but after peoples concern about BG42 being brittle they lowered that to around 60, making it a bit tougher and less brittle.
It is a great knife!
I use it around the house mostly, never had a problem with it chipping but I havent pushed it to the limits or anything like that. It was the sharpest knife out of the box I have ever bought and it shows no edge damage. I have yet to sharpen it save for touchups. I may be wrong but SOG orgiginally heat treated them to a rockwell of 62 but after peoples concern about BG42 being brittle they lowered that to around 60, making it a bit tougher and less brittle.
It is a great knife!
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
I have tried the pretty thin edge of mine pressing against SPYDERCO Sharpmakers brass handguard rod and I have managed to bend very edge and to straiten it pressing with opposite side. With no chipping!
So use it sensibly and you cant go wrong with this knife.
However the sheath should be better...
So use it sensibly and you cant go wrong with this knife.
However the sheath should be better...
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
I haven't tried the SOG BG-42, but I have used a Buck Vanguard Master Series hunting knife (sadly out of production) with a hollow ground BG-42 blade. I found the edge to be very durable. I did a test with several hunting knives where I chopped notches into the side edges of beef ribs. The BG-42 blade was the only one that showed absolutely no effect from the chopping. I believe the blade was hardened to a little over 60.
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- Jul 9, 1999
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- 3,316
I think SOG did the right thing with the Field Knife by lowering the Rc. It's a great compromise IMO. At Rc60 BG-42 is still plenty hard enough to hold a great edge while not being on the brittle side. I've been quite content with the performance my Field Knife is giving.
Cliff Stamp
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Sergiusz Mitin :
All steels behave like this, none have a zero length plastic deformation stage.
Misque :
For a utility knife I would have kept it higher. Thats is one of the main advantages of BG-42, and the extra few RC points would have lead to longer edge retention for most light cutting and ease of crisp edge formation, and greater cutting ability by allowing a finer edge.
As for the field knife, used as a light utility knife, BG-42 is one of the high end steels, and will do very well for a broad range of tasks. Just don't do any heavy prying with it, nor subject it to heavy shock like metal impacts. For that type of work you want a much simpler steel.
-Cliff
All steels behave like this, none have a zero length plastic deformation stage.
Misque :
For a utility knife I would have kept it higher. Thats is one of the main advantages of BG-42, and the extra few RC points would have lead to longer edge retention for most light cutting and ease of crisp edge formation, and greater cutting ability by allowing a finer edge.
As for the field knife, used as a light utility knife, BG-42 is one of the high end steels, and will do very well for a broad range of tasks. Just don't do any heavy prying with it, nor subject it to heavy shock like metal impacts. For that type of work you want a much simpler steel.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2002
- Messages
- 270
I have owned two of these knives, and I lost about a quarter ince off the tip of both! I my Opinion, the BG-42 is in fact too brittle. Granted I was doing rather stupid thing's both times... the first time I grabbed it too fast and too steep out of some cabinate wood. The second time I was trying to pry up a rusty hinge, and both times the tip broke at the same spot. Actually, I really liked the Recondo, it just wasent a capable field knife by any means.
Cliff Stamp
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MercuryHayze :
This really isn't too severe a task for a knife to handle, I am surprised that it broke unless when you drew it out you yanked sideways. Even the hard stainless steels should not be this brittle.
Stainless steels in general have very little give and thus are not good choices for prying with as they break violently with little warning. You are better off with a carbon steel blade that is a little softer to get a decent amount of ductility. Plus a heavier tip profile if you really want to put a lot of weight on it. The Becker TacTool being an example of a knife designed for exactly that kind of thing.
-Cliff
This really isn't too severe a task for a knife to handle, I am surprised that it broke unless when you drew it out you yanked sideways. Even the hard stainless steels should not be this brittle.
Stainless steels in general have very little give and thus are not good choices for prying with as they break violently with little warning. You are better off with a carbon steel blade that is a little softer to get a decent amount of ductility. Plus a heavier tip profile if you really want to put a lot of weight on it. The Becker TacTool being an example of a knife designed for exactly that kind of thing.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2002
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- 270
I know it wasen't the right tool for the job. I guess the lesson is not to bring a tactical blade on a fishing boat.
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- Jun 5, 2002
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Well, as we all know the Chris Reeve Sebenza has used BG-42 with great success for many years at a hardness of 60-61 i believe. I dont recall hearing of problems with BG42 Sebenzas being brittle and i know many people use them hard. The new S30V blades however have shown some minor chipping problems according to a few posts i read, even though they lowered the hardness a few points.
Cliff Stamp
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A search of the Reeve forum will turn up chipping problems with the Sebenza. Note however that Reeve runs his bevels much thinner and more acute than most. But additionally we are talking about a folder, even if BG-42 held up very well for a folder that would not translate to it being functional for a much larger and heavier fixed blade.
-Cliff
-Cliff
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- Oct 10, 2002
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I have a autoclip with bg-42 steel that I used to cut some tightly wrapped hair off the roller of a vacum cleaner. The tip (about 1/8th ")broke off with what I thought was very little prying pressure. The tip was not against anything metal or solid, just the fiber/hair. I like the edge it holds but thought that it was a little to brittle in this regards as I have used other knife metals on this job before with no problems. I think the metal does better at a little lower hardness IMO.
Cliff Stamp
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PISTOLPETE :
For heavier cutting yes, the only way to get decent durability in the high alloy stainless steels is to either run the cross sections really thick, or leave the steel very soft as Spyderco had to do with 440V. The main problem is a misuse of the material, it isn't as was promoted by SOG "an extremely tough" steel. It is a fine grained, high wear resistant, high maximum hardness stainless steel, which is great for low stress, high abrasion cutting. I have used steels that are just as, or possibly more brittle, than the way SOG was running BG-42, you just have to use them for what they were designed to do.
-Cliff
For heavier cutting yes, the only way to get decent durability in the high alloy stainless steels is to either run the cross sections really thick, or leave the steel very soft as Spyderco had to do with 440V. The main problem is a misuse of the material, it isn't as was promoted by SOG "an extremely tough" steel. It is a fine grained, high wear resistant, high maximum hardness stainless steel, which is great for low stress, high abrasion cutting. I have used steels that are just as, or possibly more brittle, than the way SOG was running BG-42, you just have to use them for what they were designed to do.
-Cliff
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2002
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- 270
Damn... Wish I had known that at the time
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
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- 1,499
Cliff,
How are you evaluating BG-42, ATS-34/154CM, VG-10, AUS-8 and 440C in toughness relation?
Could you put them in decreasing order (the toughest first) please?
In another words what would be the best in your opinion for heavy duty outdoor knife? Not pure cutter like SPYDERCO Bill Moran Featherweight on one side, not sharpened prybar like FALLKNIVEN A-1 on the other, but still the knife ready for most common outdoors/camping cutting tasks in sensible limits.
How are you evaluating BG-42, ATS-34/154CM, VG-10, AUS-8 and 440C in toughness relation?
Could you put them in decreasing order (the toughest first) please?
In another words what would be the best in your opinion for heavy duty outdoor knife? Not pure cutter like SPYDERCO Bill Moran Featherweight on one side, not sharpened prybar like FALLKNIVEN A-1 on the other, but still the knife ready for most common outdoors/camping cutting tasks in sensible limits.
Cliff Stamp
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calyth :
Yes, exactly. Just recently I had to cut up a fair amount of carpet, replace the living room. I was using a standard utility knife, low alloy steel. The blade actually got a visible hook wore into it because of the high abrasion of the carpet. Rolling, which is usually the dominate cause of blunting was an insignificant effect here.
Sergiusz :
If you mean criteria, it would be ability to take a set under impaction and flex, and resist fracture under shock. By method, is a combination of use, intentional breakage, and materials properties.
It would run from softest to hardest, as there are major differences in how they are heat treated.
AUS-8 : 57
440C / VG-10 : 58/59
ATS-34 : 59-61
BG-42 : 60 +
There are inherent differences in the toughness of these steels, but the large difference in RC would be more significant. Few people run these at less than their highest values. Larry Harley is one for example who does. I recall him mentioning ~55 RC for ATS-34 bowies and such. At this RC it would be tougher than AUS-8 at 57 RC I would expect, but less resistant to direct impaction, and weaker.
If I had to have a stainless, AISI 420HC at ~ 55 RC. The biggest problem for such blades (stainless) for that type of use is long term exposure to shock inducing breakage from propogation of cracks. The greater wear resistance of the higher alloy steels is of little use on heavier wood work as the edge doesn't blunt in that manner, and the slightly greater cutting ability offered by the allowance of a slightly thinner edge would be offset by a much greater potentional of gross fracture off a bad hit, inclusion or the like which would act to force a thicker edge unless you either liked to take risks, or were very careful about what you cut.
-Cliff
Yes, exactly. Just recently I had to cut up a fair amount of carpet, replace the living room. I was using a standard utility knife, low alloy steel. The blade actually got a visible hook wore into it because of the high abrasion of the carpet. Rolling, which is usually the dominate cause of blunting was an insignificant effect here.
Sergiusz :
If you mean criteria, it would be ability to take a set under impaction and flex, and resist fracture under shock. By method, is a combination of use, intentional breakage, and materials properties.
It would run from softest to hardest, as there are major differences in how they are heat treated.
AUS-8 : 57
440C / VG-10 : 58/59
ATS-34 : 59-61
BG-42 : 60 +
There are inherent differences in the toughness of these steels, but the large difference in RC would be more significant. Few people run these at less than their highest values. Larry Harley is one for example who does. I recall him mentioning ~55 RC for ATS-34 bowies and such. At this RC it would be tougher than AUS-8 at 57 RC I would expect, but less resistant to direct impaction, and weaker.
If I had to have a stainless, AISI 420HC at ~ 55 RC. The biggest problem for such blades (stainless) for that type of use is long term exposure to shock inducing breakage from propogation of cracks. The greater wear resistance of the higher alloy steels is of little use on heavier wood work as the edge doesn't blunt in that manner, and the slightly greater cutting ability offered by the allowance of a slightly thinner edge would be offset by a much greater potentional of gross fracture off a bad hit, inclusion or the like which would act to force a thicker edge unless you either liked to take risks, or were very careful about what you cut.
-Cliff