Soliciting specific input re: Sebenza vs. Elishewitz

[Bronco]

To begin, I'm a new member who is thoroughly impressed with the professionalism and quality of information provided by the contributors to Bladeforums. In fact, it wasn't until logging on for the first time last week that I realized I could no longer go on living without a high quality semi-custom folder. Thanks alot guys. Anyway, based on reputations derived from the forum and their relative availability, I believe I have narrowed my choices down to either a small Sebenza or one of Allen Elishewitz' small Neos or Persians. What a dilemna!
I intend to make this a daily carry item. Primary uses will include opening boxes, cutting tape, assisting in my woodworking projects and most importantly, as an instrument to be admired while sitting around working the smooth, bank vault-like action during particularly slow conference calls. It will also accompany me on my occasional extended backpacking ventures into the Sierra Nevadas.
Rather than turn this into a partisan free-for-all, I'd like to solicit specific input regarding the following impressions I've developed regarding these two fine knives:

1) In terms of blade composition it is my understanding that, although neither steel is truly state of the art, both are perfectly serviceable, with the Sebenza's BG-42 steel being slightly superior to 154CM in most ways.

2) With respect to fit and finish I know the Sebenza has a reputation for incredibly tight tolerances and a great action. I'm not sure how Allen's knives stack up in this regard.

3) I'm sure both locking mechanisms are more than adequate, but how does the Sebenza "integral" lock fare in a direct comparison with the "monolock" available on the two Elishewitz models I'm considering?

4) The Sebenza appears to have a nice slim profile making it comfortable to carry. I haven't been able to find any top-down photos of the Neos/Persians to determine how they compare in this regard.

If anyone can lend any insight into the areas in question or feels I'm way off base in any of my assumptions I'd love to hear about it. Aesthetically I find the Elishewitz offerings more appealing. I'm afraid that ultimately I'll be faced with deciding whether or not looks are worth a $160 price differential. But I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. In the meantime any input or opinions or most appreciated. Thanks to all in advance.

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Semper Fi

 

[stjames]

Bronco,

Welcome to the forums, I am glad that you are enjoying the boards so far. I’ll be glad to address your specific points;

1) “State of the Art” is extremely open for interpretation, but I would agree that BG-42 holds an edge in overall performance and edge holding. CRK does their own heat treatment, while Mr. Elishewitz has it done for him out of shop, and both get excellent results from the steel they have chosen.

2) The Sebenzas reputation for fit and finish is well earned, with a consistency from knife to knife that is astounding. But I can honestly say that the tolerances on the Elishewitz folders that I own are the best that I have ever seen on a custom made knife, comparable to the work done by CRK. I consider this to be high praise indeed.

3) The Integral Lock and the Mono Lock are basically the same concept, also known as a Frame Lock. Again, the execution on the Elishewitz is excellent. One major advantage that is offered by Allen is his Bolster Lock, which allows the use of a variety of materials for handle scales and inlays. The Bolster Lock is not really any stronger than his Liner Locks, but offers the added security and reliability of the Frame Lock by having your grip on the knife keep the lock bar in place and increasing the contact area between the bar and blade tang.

4) I don’t own a Neo or Persian, but I assume that Allen uses the same stock of materials in constructing all of his knives. The CF Inlay Cortex I have is approx. 1/16th of an inch thicker than the Small Sebenza, and just a hair thinner than the Large.

And now for some unsolicited comments;

A) The Sebenza uses a high hollow grind that gives and extremely sharp, thin edge. Elishewitz uses a flat saber grind, but still manages to give a nice thin edge to his blades. I have not been able to tell a noticeable drag when cutting with a Sebenza, and the steel holds up to heavy use well, so I don’t see the advantage of the flat grind on a folder of this size.

B) Elishewitz had an ambidextrous thumb stud on all his knives, on the Sebenza it is an option that costs an additional $20.00 and is worth every penny.

C) The Sebenza offers an adjustable stop pin, which can be rotated when worn to keep the lock-up tight. This is not an option on the Elishewitz, and leads to what is one of the most important factors to consider on a hard use folder:

D) Maintenance. The Sebenza is designed to be easily disassembled for cleaning and ease of maintenance. If you drop an Elishewitz custom into a puddle of muck, you will most likely have to send it back to him for a proper cleaning.

It really comes down to what you are looking for in a knife. Allan Elishewitz makes a great knife, functional and beautiful, robust construction with lovely touches like a jeweled and anodized interior on the handle slabs and options like Carbon Fiber or Wood Inlays and Handle Scales, as well as a variety of styles to choose from.

The Sebenza is simply the toughest, best made all around utility folder offered, perfect for in the field or around the house and office.

Balance out your wants and needs, then decide. You should be happy with either choice. Good luck

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[skillet]

I'll put my couple nickles in. I own a 3 inch Elishewitz spectre with the bolster lock. I've got green G-10 scales on it. I have owned a few knives and as far as fit, finish,tolerances and overall attention to detail I've not seen another better. I have not owned or handled one of Chris's Sebis. To make a long story short I would get both of them and then decide for yourself (seriously).
Cordially
Ode

 

[Kingknives]

It looks like stjames pretty much covered it all. Looking at your needs, I would probably go with the Sebenza.

That being said, I did just sell my small Sebenza to help go towards an Elishewitz MARS.

Remember, your comparing a production folder (Sebenza) to a true handmade (Elishewitz), so don't let the price fool you!

You'll eventually end up with both, it's just a matter of which is first?

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"May you live in interesting times"

AKTI - A000389

 

Excellent discourse, guys. Don't know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but it would be nice to see a collaboration done between Chris and Allen, combining the best from both. Now that would be some folder! How about it, Chris and Allen?



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Harry

L'audace, toujours l'audace!!!

 

[Bronco]

Gents,
Thanks to all. Special thanks to James. Your articulate, thoughtful and informative contribution is about what I've come to expect from this august group, and exactly what I needed to help make my decision. Great insight on the maintenance issues by the way.
Oh, did I mention that my small Sebenza will be here next Wednesday?
Ode and Kingknives- you guys are scaring me with your predictions that I will eventually own both, but my guess is that your crystal balls are getting pretty good reception. When's the next payday?

No longer a virgin.

 

[Biginboca]

For daily carry I wold go with the Sebenza for two reasons:

1.All the Elishewitz knies I have owned have not been the most comfortable to carry. They tend to be a little on the thick side. For daily carry the Sebenza would be more comfortable because it is thinner and also has a slimmer clip. IN MY OPINION the Sebenza clip is also more practical in that it is less likely to get hung up on things.

2. Allens locks used to be hit or miss, but I have heard that they are better quality nowadays. If I were you I would definitely handle the Elishewitz before commiting to purchase. (With most dealers and Allen himself this would not be a probem as they will make it right.)

I am sure that whatever you choose you will end up with the other knife down the road, so in all likelihood the discussion is really, "What Should I Get First!"

Take Care,
Al

Al