Some Damascus pattern clarification per design?

expidia1

expidia1

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Feb 18, 2018
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I'd like some input from some of our knowledgeable or experienced Damascus blade owners.

Background: I received this raindrop handle and Damascus blade from a seller here who has been on the up and up with me throughout the transaction. The pic of the blade in his hand it what I was getting as it was a brand new CRK blade re-installed by them just last week as it came not quite right, so the buyer who just paid $300 to CKR sent it back to them and they corrected the fit and turned it around within a week. This seb was born 1/28/16.

He mailed it out to me the same day with the blade receipt and even the old blade as I asked him how he damaged it in the first place. It was from stropping where the blade has a bludge on both sides it developed shiny spots along the length of the Damascus pattern.

So here is my issue. First Im unhappy with this particular raindrop pattern as to me its whimpy looking. I purposely set my sights on RD as they always appeared bolder to me over the other patterns. If I'm going to pay up for a Damascus I want it to be able to be "seen".

And this is my other issue . . . Looking at the blade in his hand the pattern looked fine to me.
But now that the knife is in my hand it has a hologram like effect as the pattern along the spine is there all the time (albeit very light) but as soon as I move the blade the Damascus totally disappears. It seems its due to the curvature of the blade (but all seb 21's curve like this). When I pick this knife up and look at it from the side view the blade is just a grey blur.

And on this particular RD pattern this is unacceptable to me. I don't know enough about the various patterns and Im sure its what gives each one its uniqueness . . .
But from my readings here I don't know if this is an issue when CRK switched to Chad Nicholas for his RD blades from Devin Thomas or however that went but know what my personal tastes are (this week ;)).

Check the difference in my cigar box pic. The Mnandi Damascus is bold and beautiful (to me). Yet the RD large seb 21 the pattern can't even be seen due to the curve and also the weak RD pattern itself. Will this be the same issue with each Damascus 21 blade? (I don't know as this is my first).

The blade in pic #3 is a stock photo of my exact knife currently for sale for $680. I paid $500 but it doesn't matter to me what I paid. I feel I'm going to have to resell this specimen as its just not what I thought I was getting (and its no fault of the seller).

Monday I'll put a call into Alicia at CRK and see if they can swap this blade since it only been 1 week, but I might get the exact same pattern back again? And Im real leary now in making another investment in ANY OTHER Damascus large seb 21. I see so many beautiful examples of Damascus of these forums and yet I'm very disappointed with this blade.

Any thoughts on the above will be helpful in what direction I need to proceed from here. I'm desperate for education on this subject.

20180417_193956-3024x2268.jpg IMG_6401.jpg Screen Shot 2018-05-03 at 5.26.36 PM 2.jpg IMG_6407.jpg IMG_6408.jpg
 
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Blade in pics 1 and 4 is an excellent example of Chad Nichols raindrop; probably hand picked. CRK might be able to re-etch for contrast, or you could d.i.y.
 
newdebate said:
Blade in pics 1 and 4 is an excellent example of Chad Nichols raindrop; probably hand picked. CRK might be able to re-etch for contrast, or you could d.i.y.
Click to expand...

The original owner tried to re-etch it himself to remove the shiny spots. But he found the etching in itself is a bit of an artform as it removes metal and a tad too long in the solution ruined the close tolerances of the CRK blade. Hence the lesson and $300 cost of a new blade.
I'm hoping CRK can work with me on this. I don't mind re-selling it as its fresh from the Spa, DOB less than 2.5 years old, new blade and I like the RD handle CG. So I'd prefer swapping this blade rather than hunt down what might be a similar issue. This is why I need Feedback on how to go from here.

Its one thing to re-etch an older blade or a user but . . . for $300 one should not have to re-etch a brand new blade IMO. And Im sure that would kill off any CRK warranty.

But thanks for that tip as its the first one in my quiver, so far :thumbsup:

And if blade one is an excellent example of Chad Nicholas then it's just not for me. There is no pop and it can only be seen at a certain angle and still has no boldness. Its actaully just a grey blur to me. I'm sure this is exactly what many here are happy to own. Blade pic 4 is perfect. Bold and has the pop i was looking for (thats why I bought it). Thats the Mnandi and it can be viewed very clearly from all angles and still has a slight curve to the blade.

Depending on what CRK has to say, if this is CN current best example of his Damascus then I might have to just the search the FS forums for an older Damascus model to pop up. I don't know yet until I get some more feedback. Maybe this is just the particular blade that goes with the RD handle. Thats why I dont want them to send me just another of the exact same blade as I'll re-sell it first.
 
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I think what you're describing is kinda par for the course for damascus steels. I have two different CRK damascus blades; a Nichols raindrop and a Thomas ladder, and they both display the kind of phenomenon you're talking about. It's part of the charm of modern damascus steels to exhibit variations as you axially rotate the blade of the knife.

If you're looking for "in your face" bright contrast damascus, I think the most striking along those lines is the Thor Damasteel. You should check that out and some of the knives that it comes on if that's the look you want.
 
blanco112 said:
Chad Nichols raindrop shows up fainter than Devin Thomas' but generally with tighter circles and an overall nicer pattern.
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Thx. Thats pretty much inline with what I searched out last night between the two Smith's designs. I'd like to figure out what years I need to look for to get one with a bolder brighter pattern since we can only go by a pic of one for sale.

I'm thinking from this experience is that this particular chad nicholas blade is designed to go with this RD handle.

Maybe I'll try swapping out my Mnandi Damascus blade with the seb 21 handle :D

Any other references to threads as to what I'm looking for in a Damascus blade pattern is appreciated:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/chads-raindrop.1557824/#post-17889292
 
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Here are both my Damascus shown together again See how the upper one's pattern has partially disappeared and how the lower one contrasty, bold and beautiful (born 4/16/18).
From my readings it appears that Chad did not take over the making of the Mnandi blades.

Its like art. One person can look at a painting and see something totally different than the other person. These blades are pure art to me.

IMG_6406.jpg
 
Now I see what my issue is after learning there are two different blade suppliers and viewing both blades together. The old blade (born 1-28-16) that seller had CRK replace looks to be a Thomas and CRK replaced it with a Nichols version. Besides being a fainter tighter pattern, the Nichols blade unless the pic is snapped directly at a 90 degree angle starts to disappears into just a grey blur.

One other note on the pic comparison is the sellers etching attempt on the old blade probably brought out the design of the Thomas blade somewhat brighter in the pics (but it still doesn't disappear like the Nicholas version does).

I even watched a number of youtube vids on how they make Damascus and the various patterns to learn if Damasacus would wear too quickly before I decided to go for a Damascus blade. I liked the RD pattern the best due to its bold design. How was one to know that CRK changed their supplier for their seb 21 RD blades. I see new seb 25's on the online seller sites still being sold with the bolder RD Thomas versions!

Also, around the pivot hole it can be seen where his etching removed too much metal and messed up the tight CRK tolerances rendering the old blade useless.

IMG_6447.jpg IMG_6448.jpg
 
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To clear up some confusion you may have.
The damascus is supplied to CRK to make blades from..The suppliers of the damascus do not make the blades.
 
Great thanks. I thought I had read the blades came from the suppliers as blades already.

Bill, on another note . . . is there a name for your scary looking evil avatar? Is it from some ancient African tribe? Or was it something you designed yourself?
 
expidia1 said:
Now I see what my issue is after learning there are two different blade suppliers and viewing both blades together. The old blade (born 1-28-16) that seller had CRK replace looks to be a Thomas and CRK replaced it with a Nichols version. Besides being a fainter tighter pattern, the Nichols blade unless the pic is snapped directly at a 90 degree angle starts to disappears into just a grey blur.

One other note on the pic comparison is the sellers etching attempt on the old blade probably brought out the design of the Thomas blade somewhat brighter in the pics (but it still doesn't disappear like the Nicholas version does).

I even watched a number of youtube vids on how they make Damascus and the various patterns to learn if Damasacus would wear too quickly before I decided to go for a Damascus blade. I liked the RD pattern the best due to its bold design. How was one to know that CRK changed their supplier for their seb 21 RD blades. I see new seb 25's on the online seller sites still being sold with the bolder RD Thomas versions!

Also, around the pivot hole it can be seen where his etching removed too much metal and messed up the tight CRK tolerances rendering the old blade useless.

View attachment 901314 View attachment 901315
Click to expand...

Oops! Must not have masked the pivot and lockface? Maybe try cold blueing the ruined blade.
 
newdebate said:
Oops! Must not have masked the pivot and lockface? Maybe try cold blueing the ruined blade.
Click to expand...

Ya, I was thinking there must be some process to save it as a spare of some sort. I'll ask CRK what they think.

If you snap the tip of a Benchmade blade BM charges $30-40 to replace it with a new blade.
$300 for a Damascus blade is quite a whack... Bottom line is don't F' with your CRK blades. I would only let CRK re-etch a blade as another poster had suggested. But if CRK can't swap this one for the older version, then I'll re-sell it as there seems to be a big fanbase for Nichols work. He does do a nice job with the Mnandi RD versions if he did the one I have in Damascus.
 
You can re-etch yourself. If you can take that knife apart, you can re-etch.

Do not get the blade wet past the sharpening notch. This is not my methodology, but since you’re concerned about it, don’t. A little splash won’t hurt a thing. Don’t be OCD about it, just get it done.

Place the blade in red wine vinegar for a while. Check every 15 minutes until an hour or more for desired results. Wash it well when you’re done or it will continue etching. Soap and a toothbrush will work just fine.

There are lots of acids that will re-etch your blade. I use whatever I have, but on Damascus I use red-wine vinegar. A seasoned knife maker who uses Damascus mostly advised me on the red-wine vinegar.

As you use that knife, the black will fade again and you’ll have to re-etch. All Damascus will eventually need re-etching and, even more so, after usage.

Side note: I would not store my folders in the open position.
 
I also saw somewhere using toe/finger nail paint to cover the areas not to be etched then you can submerse the entire thing. This is likely an amateur trick not sure how great it would work but if doing a re-etch that is all the advice I can give. Personally given the risk and also personally finding the raindrop pattern, of anyone, bland I would just sell/trade it and move on.
 
Ya thats my plan to re-sell it and get a DT version. if I get get another solution. but im calling CRK to see if they can do anything for me with a blade swap. I tend to think they have no DT stock for a seb 21, but i’ll find out within a few minutes as I had to wait until their west coast opening hours.
 
For CRK damascus, the older pre-stainless examples on the regulars always popped. They have different care needs than the newer ss versions, but the patterns and contrasts were amazing. Specific examples are the mosaic, sharkstooth and zebra versions. For the newer, the spirograph pattern really jumps out for me. Good luck in the chase, that's half the fun.
 
haha. some of those posts of Damascus pics the patterns are amazing.

I called CRK and as I figured they have no other stock than DT stuff.
She wants me to send them a pic of my blade so they can see if there is some type of manufacturing variance is my guess as the disappearing pattern to me is a game killer.

Either way, I picked it up a a great price so I wont lose on the transaction and the buyer gets a 1/28/16 CG RD handle that the receipt says they Spa’d it and re-sandblasted the handle plus with a brand new DT Damascus blade.

Im in no rush to sell yet until I locate the pattern I want. So far my favorite 21 EDC is the one I picked up that is the spalted beech inlays. It always just felt thinner to me. I also have a lrg seb 21 gold leaf and now this RD version.
I put a micrometer on all 3 and the spalted beech is definitely slightly thinner and lighter.

I’ll just keep my eye out for an older RD DT version.
 
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