Some knives/copanies deserve more credit

[Richard]

Yep, another one of my "I have been thinking posts"....dangerous

Anyways, I have seen posts over time that tell one person to consider one particular knife, because its the best and all others suck.

Also, as many of you have seen, to many knives that are out there are automatically labeled as rip-offs of somebody else.

So, a few examples of what I am trying to say are as follows:

When the subject of the Cold Steel Trailmaster comes up, without fail there will be some who come in and say forget it, you should just get a Busse, Strider and so on. Some will even go so far as to imply that the TM is near worthless because it wont bend quite as far as a Busse before breaking and so on. The way I see it is, yeah, the Busses, Tops, Striders and so on are obviously high quality and strong knives. But the TM is one of the early knives that started that trend. Cold Steel is one company early on who decided to try and produce the strongest knives on a mass production scale, no doubt at quite a financial investment. I think over time that some companies making 'super knives' started that way as direct competition to Cold Steel. Of course over time as these other guys found better materials and corrected weaknesses in other designs, of course they came up with even stronger knives than the TM. Just remember before insulting the TM as inferior that it was one of the first (if not the first) attempts at the modern "bomb proof" knives. Many of todays super knives may not even be around of CS hadnt started the trend.

Another thing: This and that knife is a Strider rip-off, or Emerson rip-off or Spyderco, Benchmade and blah blah blah. If you have been around knives long enough, even these newer designs can be said to resemble some models that were around years ago. For instance, in the review section somebody said that Extreme Ratio knives look like Striders. That maybe true, and maybe they did come up with their design based on Striders. However, in the late 80s and early 90s I used to get Cutlery Shoppe catalogs on a regular basis. Ek Commando knives had several variations of their models. Some of the bead blasted, cord wrapped models could be said to be where Strider got their inspiration. I doubt this is the case, but put certain models from each company together and you might see a reasonable similarity. Also, Mission knives has (or had) a model that somewhat resembled a Maddog design, that does not mean one design was a rip-off of another.

Of course there are blatant rip-offs that we can all spot a mile away, but there are other original designs that still resemble older knives even if one has no relation to the other.

Basically im saying before you state something like "Trailmaster sucks" and Busse, Strider, Tops etc... rule", just remember that when the the TM was released wayyy back when, it was the knife to beat.

Or when saying "hey, that company copied my favorite knife, so they suck"....go back far enough and you can probably find a knife that looks like your favorite...doesnt mean your favorite is a rip-off though.

Im sure there are a hundred other examples that could be used, and I would be interested to hear your opinions on these, and any other things you can think of.

 

[Quiet Storm]

I don´t know exactly when the CS TM came up, but Mr. Busse for example manufactures knives since the early 80ies...so I don´t think he walking on a path CS created (heavy duty knives). IMO Cold Steel was just the first hard-use-knife-producing company who sold those pieces in large numbers.
I do not think the Trailmaster is a bad knife, but I think it is inferior to the (more expensive) products by Busse or Strider. Probably even the Swamp Rat line offers better knives, but that still doesn´t imply that the TM sucks. It´s just not the greatest knife around, although CS´ advertising sometimes leaves the impression that it was.
I´m perfectly fine with "aggressive, hyping" ads, but if they are allowed to say their product is the greatest, then it´s my right to tell that I do not agree with this claim - and if people are bashing Cold Steel (something I do not do!) this may be at least partially due to CS "we are the best screw the rest"-like attitude/image.
In fact I own two CS knives (no TM) and I think they´re both great bangs for the buck and I´ll probably go on buying their products in the future, but I´m not gonna buy hype.

Concerning the rip-off thing, I absolutely agree with your thoughts: it´s probably impossible to make up an objective way of comparing designs to find out if either one is a knock-off.
Someone posted on another thread some time ago (maybe it was Glockman, I´m not sure) that he is able to indicate a knock-off when he sees one, but he can´t explain why. That´s exactly how I feel. And I´ve never seen one famous and reputable company ripping off another one´s design, maybe some details were similar, but that´s just normal since there´s nothing new under the sun.
Cheap POS knock-offs are a different story than some minor design resemblances tho.

 

[Richard]

QS, I know Jerry has been making knives for quite sometime...I was referring to production in large numbers. But your point is good, CS may not have been the first...but was an early one.

Maybe a better example would be the Sebenza. That topic come up as to whether its over priced, and some people come and say that if you want a good frame lock, buy from this company, or that maker and so on, and that the Sebenza is over priced. It may be, or may not be. I dont know if Chris Reeve was the inventor of the frame lock or not, but at the very least it is in wide use by makers and companies because of him.

As for rip-offs, Im with you and glockman (and lots of others) I can spot a rip-off pretty easily.

Remember the recent example of some troll (dont remember the name right-off) that would come here and link to some "cool knives" that he "found" (think he was selling them). They were obviously shameless (shameful?) Strider knock-offs. People like that troll and his products are un-ethical and disgusting.

There are also many knock-offs of the Buck 110. Most of those have become accepted though and are rarely commented on, maybe because of how long it has been going on.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Originally posted by Richard
Maybe a better example would be the Sebenza. That topic come up as to whether its over priced, and some people come and say that if you want a good frame lock, buy from this company, or that maker and so on, and that the Sebenza is over priced. It may be, or may not be. I dont know if Chris Reeve was the inventor of the frame lock or not, but at the very least it is in wide use by makers and companies because of him.

I can see your point much better with this example.
OK, maybe CS was a pioneer in the market niche of mass-produced heavy duty knives with the TM. The problem is, while Busse switched from A2 to INFI and the Strider guys constantly upgrade their steel and AFAIK they both try to optimize their products in several different ways too - Correct me if I´m wrong - Cold Steel doesn´t seem to improve the Trailmaster, but they still act like it´s the best blade around in this category.