Some makers are just jerks

Joss

Joss

Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
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There's no reason why everyone in the knife business should be nice. Of course, there are many people who are outstanding mentors, teachers, and plain good people. But then there has to be some who are just a**-holes - just people with a bad attitude, or whatever.

Would you buy something from such a maker (assuming the piece & price is right for you)?

Thanks,

JD
 
Not me, no never, I feel that 96% or more of the makers I have met are the finest folks I have ever associated with, knives aside.

The jerks stick out like a sore thumb. With all the great folks out there, why even consider it? As a rule the jerks will not be around as knife makers very long. (Fish out of water syndrome).
 
By buying from makers who are a$$holes, one would only be supporting and reinforcing this type of a$$holish behavior. Maybe if no one bought from these guys it would help to tune up their behavior.

I have found, though, that jerks in the knife industry are far and few between. Most won't last long anyway, because there are so many other talented and friendly makers out there.

I guess Mr. Bastid pretty much summed up what I was trying to say as well :)

~Mitch
 
Thanks for the comments. Based on what I've heard (note that this is 2nd hand, hear say, etc), I've got the feeling that some of the most collectable makers out have / had a pretty bad reputation as people...

JD
 
Joss,
The most collectable makers that I know fall into that 96% that Bastid was talking about. I can only think of one that falls into that small percentage of jerks.
 
There are a few out there, and NO I wont buy from them [no matter how much I like their knives or how good the price is]
 
Why buy from someone who is a jerk?

Whether you are shopping at the entry level or high end, there are so many nice people who pour their heart and soul into making the perfect knife for their customer that I fail to see why someone would consider buying a knife from someone who is a jerk.

Just because someone prices their knife very high, does not mean that knife or knifemaker are worth owning. Some of the best knives I have are from mid-priced knifemakers. I could spend more but, I would be hard pressed to get a better knife or deal with a better quality person.

Buy from people of good character whom you can respect for their craft. Let the others die into obscurity as they crawl back under the rock they came out from under for their 15 seconds of fame.
 
I must be very fortunate ! I've never had the displeasure of hookin' up with a jerk-maker.

:D
 
Would i PREFER that the maker not be a jerk, of course, but if i see a knife i really like, and its priced fairly, ill buy it, jerk or not. I have a knife i love, and was shortly thereafter told by someone very knowledgable and highly regarded in the world of custom knives that the maker is a jerk, and yet somehow, i still love the knife. I admit, i look at the knife, and not so much who made it.
Like i said, id prefer if the guy was nice, but for me, its not absolutely critical.
 
Just keep in mind, we've all been jerks at one time or another. Very few people are either all good, or all bad, and you never know what's eatin at sombody. Every great once in a while however, you are unfortunate enough to meet the exception to the rule. I thought I'd met such a fellow once. Over a six month period, he just royally pissed me off everytime I met him. Finally he quit comming to work, and I was relieved to be rid of him. Found out a few months later, he died of a brain tumor!
 
I wouldn't even consider purchasing a knife from a maker that I thought was a cretin. With my limited supply of funds, I am never going to run out of courteous, affable makers to deal with. Why would I even consider dealing with an a$$hole.
 
How do you define a "Jerk"?

Consider this:

1. A maker that never answers emails. (I know a few)
2. A maker that does not allow his catalog to be published. (we all know who that is)
3. A maker that does not want to tune or fix his knives - unless paid for. dearly. (I know of at least one)
4. A maker that never replies to question addressed at him in public forums. (many)

the answer to each and every question can be of course - Yes - the guy is a jerk.

but take this into account:

question number 1:

he may be VERY over booked to the point of not being able to spend any time online or answering MANY emails.

OR

he may be computer challenged...

OR - he may be answering emails from his close circle of old and loyal buyers. putting all of his time into making them what they want - cause they were there for him from day one...

question number 2:

merely posting his catalog online will produce a stream of ME2 from people that never heard of him. forcing him to say no to many more buyers...and letting them all down..

3:

This has happened to me - and as result I sold all the knives I ever got from said maker. I think a maker should ALWAYS stand behind his knives.

4. some makers have very little free time - by the time they get online - all the answers have been given - and to reply with a me2 - is meaningless.. plus some feel attacked by nobodies online - that would never step up to a man and challenge him -but feel super strong hiding behind their screen - hence destroying the sense of sharing ideas and answering question online...


just my 02
 
If a maker was a jerk to me then I woul definitely not buy from him...I don't need to qualify that with a "no matter how much I like his knives" because, in my experience, when a maker is a "jerk", his knives seem to lose their appeal...know what I mean?

On the other hand, I have (and will) purchased from makers who are reputed to be jerks or at least they have not been nice to people on the boards...


RL
 
Unfortunately it's many that learn a Maker is truly an A** only after they begin to deal with him. A person can be a very good Knife Maker but also be a very poor or nearly dishonest business man whch can also compound difficulties. If you have "a feeling" that something isn't quite right about a Maker or a Deal then go with your gut! The best course of action when you learn of a Maker like this is to give them an extremely wide berth and advise those that you know to do the same.
 
Blilious raises some excellent points. Particularly with #1,2,4. There was a maker who I contacted when I first got on the internet and found his website. He never emailed me back. When he would occasionally post on the forums I would try to ask there...never got answered. I also wondered why he didn't have any catalogs or brochures for his work.

Then I found out when I met that maker in person that he was over 5 years backlogged, got about 100 emails per day from people wanting knives, and just knew enough about the forums to get on and post very rarely. Once I understood the situation, his cyber "ignoring" me made sense. :)

Now I only judge a maker by how the actually treat me in direct interaction be it through an unpleasant email, over the phone, or getting ignored when I'm standing in front of their table and they're not busy.

~Mitch
 
Just to give precisions: what I mean by jerk is, well, just that. It's not to imply that they're not good makers or have sound business practices. After all, no one would buy from a bad maker, even if they're the nicest guy. So what I'm talking about is people who might be arrogant and desagreeable to deal with - not dishonest or incompetent.

JD
 
A jerk to one person may not be seen that way by another. Yes, if a maker is a jerk to me I will not buy that knife. Of course I can't recall a maker ever being anything but gracious. There are a lot of things that go on to make a person be perceived as a jerk. This may be the case in a particular instance, but not be the norm for that person. If things are going bad that day, for whatever reason, it may come out at an inoppurtune moment and then that buyer is convinced that that maker is nothing but a jerk. Of course if this scene is repeated over and over, then you may just have found yourself a REAL JERK!

As I've said though I have been to several Blade Shows, all the way back to 1986 as my first one. I have only been to one since the move to Atlanta. In all that time I simply can not remember an instance where a maker was anything but courteous. I'm sure they are out there, luckily I've not crossed paths with them!:D
 
It is very true that none of us are all good or all bad. I have on many occasions been accused of being a jerk. And you know what, many times I have been. But havent we all. There are makers who I will have nothing to do with because they have been, IMHO, a true ass. But others will say that he is the nicest guy around. We are all just people. We have good days and bad days. And alot of times we let egos blow petty things into huge problems. Some people have truely risen above that level. They have learned how to not respond to negative situations. To them I can only take my hat off and strive to be more like them.

Bob Loveless is world renowned as the biggest pain in the knife world to deal with. Thats what we have all heard right? Then we have all heard that he is blind as a bat, and does not do any grinding anymore. People say he is too old and feeble and the Jim does all the work for him. These are all things that get passed around and around about Bob. And told enough times people begin to beleive it.

Well, I met Bob back in May. He came to my shop for a class I was teaching in Kydex sheath making. I spent all day with Bob right at my shoulder. Yes, he could be a little ruff at times. But he is one of the warmest, and most genuine guys you could ever have the pleasure of meeting. I was ashamed at myself for ever believing what was said about him.

The same is true of most people. Very few people set out to be jerks. But a bad comment made on bad day can set up a maker as a jerk for years. This is highlighted by places like the forums. In a coversation, a stupid comment disappears as quickly as it is said. But the typed word stays forever. It will not matter if the person was stessed or tired or worried about home life. It just matters that he typed what he typed. And from then on he is labled a jerk. It is really quite sad.

On the other hand. There are some guys who must be offensive every time they open their mouth or turn on the computor. Don't know what to say about them.

Another example.

Years ago, I had a long time e-mail and phone freindship with a well known maker. We had never met in person. Finally the day came when we would have the chance to meet. I walked up to him and stuck out my hand with a big smile and introduced myself. He looked at me like he wanted to rip my lungs out through my ears. Then without a word turned around and walked away. I was shocked and deeply hurt. I sat about for two days switching between what a jack#ss he was and wondering what I had done to piss him off. Finally I called him and flat out asked him what was up. He began to apologize like crazy. It seems I had walked up seconds after he was in a fight with a guy who threatened is wife and kids! If I had not called, I could have been calling him a jerk to this very day.

I guess all I am saying is that even knifemakers are people. Lord knows I have had my bad days. After all, we are all humans.
 
Very well stated R.W.

There is a difference in singular events and long term patterns. If people never looked past a singular event, possibly taken out of context, who among us would not be considered a jerk?

Heresay, assumptions, and second hand rumors are a truly evil thing. Unfortunately, few people online can look past them to see the truth.
 
What worst is that it may happen somebody is a jerk to a maker, the maker responds consequently, and the jerk feels offended and goes around saying everybody he meets how a jerk the maker is.
Even more so on the net.
I feel that we give too much importance to the communication on the net, forgetting you must know somebody personally to really know him. Yes, the net is great for keeping in touch and passing infromation, but "informatiuon" is not "knowing".
I know at least a very famous maker who's off the net because he's become so pissed off about having to bear with wannabes that he decided he'd had enough.
And he's a very warm and friendly person.
I never judge somebody as a jerk if not after first hand experience. I've found too many people said to be jerks by others who simply didn't know how to behave that, after I met them friendly and respectfully, turned out to be very fine people.
this said, no, I wouldn't buy a knife from somebody I consider a jerk, mainly due to point 3 in Blilious list :)
I bought a knife from a famous italian maker six months ago. I found it having what was in my opinion a minor defect (it wasn't due to sloppy workmanship, on the contrary it was the classical "job done too well"). I met him again and gave him the knife back to set the thing. I could have done it myself, but didn't want to touch the knife and preferred he fixed it.
Not only he fixed the knife for free, but invited me to come to his home, so he could give it back to me and show me his lab and share some precious tips, knowing I'm starting to make knives as a hobbist :)


I prefer much more remembering such fine guys rather than the jerks... :)
 
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