Some NY State clarification

[charlesbjr]

Can someone please help me understand the difference with the New York State law;

For example, I understand #2 below refers to someone who has intent.

Updated 7/18/2008 10/27/2005 3/15/06

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when:
(1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun
gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal
knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, metal knuckles,
chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or
slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto,
imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon
with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or


However, Section 265.15 (4) states the following:

Section 265.15 Presumption of possession, unlawful intent,
and defacement... 2. The presence
in any stolen vehicle of any weapon... specified in
sections 265.01... is presumptive evidence of its
possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... 3. The
presence in an automobile, other than a stolen one or a
public omnibus, of any firearm... gravity knife,
switchblade knife... is presumptive evidence of its
possession by all persons occupying such vehicle...
except... (a) if such weapon... is found upon the person
of one of the occupants therein; b) is such weapon... is
found in an automobile which is being operated for hire by
a duly licensed driver... then such presumption shall not
apply to the driver...
4... The possession by any person of any dagger, dirk,
stiletto, dangerous knife or any other weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance designed, made or adapted for use
primarily as a weapon, is presumptive evidence of intent
to use the same unlawfully against another.

In the case of someone who is hunting, camping, hiking, etc., this seems a bit confusing as 265.01 (1) states intent but 265.15 (4) does not. Is this meant to be left "open ended" (I understand the dagger and dirk piece).

 

[mp510]

The key words are "presumptive evidene of intent" 265.15(4). If the prosecution had to actually prove intent, it would be very difficult nearly impossible to convict anybody of CPW..... The New York legislature recognized this and wrote in the prima facie type clause that says posession=intent.

The licensed hunting/fishing/trapping exemption for switchblades and gravtiy knives is specified word for word in the statute. There isn't, as far as I am aware, a general recreation exemption. In fact, a few years ago, I recall reading a news article that a hunter (either archery or blackpowder IIRC) was charged with CPW upstate for carrying a obsidian (or similar) knife which the arresting officer interpreted as a dagger. I don't know if the DA actually went through with prosecuting the case, but I think it is something that is important to realize- that in New York's statutes, unlike some of the more liberal (say southern) states, does not include any verbiage excluding persons "engaged in hunting, fishing, trapping, camping or any other recreational pursuits in which such implements are commonly used". The only exemptions that exist are outlined in the law. While enforcement may vary, it is important to remember that the law is there and is in effect statewide.

 

[charlesbjr]

Thanks MP510.
Then one can say that you can be arrested for carrying a weapon if you are gutting a deer or hacking some tree limbs.

I just don't get it..........

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Thanks MP510.
Then one can say that you can be arrested for carrying a weapon if you are gutting a deer or hacking some tree limbs.

I just don't get it..........

correct, per the letter of the law. ny has the most restrictive knife laws i have come across (u.s.). i find particularly odd their interpretation of a gravity knife.

most states have exemptions for lawful use. typically this will include lawful recreation and to and from.

 

[mp510]

Thanks MP510.
Then one can say that you can be arrested for carrying a weapon if you are gutting a deer or hacking some tree limbs.

I just don't get it..........

Possibly- it really depends. If you are hacking brush or limbs on your property or to clear a campsite or construction site- I doubt anybody is going to question a machete or large chopper. If you walk around town with the same, for no purpose, it would be safe to assume you're going down.

If you're butchering the deer with a "gravity knife"-> a locking folder- you're good to go if you have a hunting license.

Remember also, the NY CPW law criminalizes posession. Posession means that you assert control over some item. So haveing an illegal weapon in your junk drawer or curio cabinet would (except in the case of an unlicensed pistol) be "as criminal" as walking around with it on your person.

 

[tom19176]

In my experience the "possession by any person" wording has been viewed by most NYC ADA's as on your person being carried off your property. It is no were near as clear as the difference between possessing an illegal handgun in your house or on the street which is well spelled out in the law. As mp150, stated possession in NY means you have control over the item. That includes in your house and temporary possession ( holding a friend's knife for him or using it to cut your fishing line). It is illegal to "loan" a gravity knife to someone, so you and your friend go fishing and you both have a license, but you hand him a gravity knife to cut his line is by the wording of the law a violation of the law.
The OP ( Charles) is looking to sleep well at night ( I understand that totally), but you must always remember in NY if you raise a Bic pen at someone in a threatening manner you will be charged with CPW and some form of attempted assault or harrasment if the officer agress with the complaint's fear, or he observed you do it and deems you were in violation.

 

[charlesbjr]

Thanks guys.

If we think about this a bit, it is safe to say that every person in NY State who is issued a hunting license (and goes hunting) must have a knife. How can you harvest a deer, bear, etc. without one (or how can you set up a camp)? As such, I would find it hard to believe that every hunter is then automatically breaking the law (same for campers and fishermen). Again, not including daggers, etc.

I just wish the law would provide some more clarity, at least for those of us into the outdoor activities.

 

[mp510]

Thanks guys.

If we think about this a bit, it is safe to say that every person in NY State who is issued a hunting license (and goes hunting) must have a knife. How can you harvest a deer, bear, etc. without one (or how can you set up a camp)? As such, I would find it hard to believe that every hunter is then automatically breaking the law (same for campers and fishermen). Again, not including daggers, etc.

I just wish the law would provide some more clarity, at least for those of us into the outdoor activities.

Charles,

I believe that you are takeing several things out of context. A person who posses a non-locking knife can not be charged unless they use it as a weapon. Most likely, a person who possesses a fixed blade hunting knife will not be arrested, unless circumstances warrant the officer making the decision that the knife is a dangerous knife (something that rarely happens), or the knife is used as a weapon. Unless a person meets one of the statuatory exemptions, they can be charged with CPW for a switchblade, gravity knife or locking folder that can be flicked open (either blade or handle). Outside of NYC (though increasingly in proximal counties), it is rare for a gravity knife based CPW charge to be made. In nearly all of the non-NYC gravity knife based CPW cases (appellate) that I have read; the CPW charge was an add-on to a drug or assault arrest.

 

[tom19176]

Charles, mp510 is telling it right. With the exception of NYC ( and mostly Manhatten itself) most knife arrest are tied into to other charges. The situation of hunting upstate and being charged with illegal knife possession could happen, but it isn't likely. I have however gone hunting upstate and had the state troopers check everyone's pistols against their license to see that they were all listed, and even write down the serial numbers of the pistols of the active duty NYPD officers, which I assume they did to check later that they had them listed on their 10 card with the NYPD. I guess it can get pretty boring up there some times.

 

[charlesbjr]

Thanks gentlemen!