some questions about bronze

fast14riot

fast14riot

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Oct 27, 2010
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As a foreclosure contractor I have to remove some interesting stuff from vacant houses as I rehab them. Today was a first for me, I had to remove a headstone from the back yard of a house. It has a large 18"x24" cast bronze plaque that came off during removal. We are not allowed to find the previous tennants, so returning it won't do. I don't want to just throw it away either. So I was wondering about using it for knife making.

Is bronze an acceptable material for guards and such? Can it be forged to a rough shape, safely? I know it can release some nasty fumes when melted so I don't want to go that route. What would be a good way to handle this material? I have an angle grinder and access to a bandsaw for cutting it up, I know it files nicely. If it is feasable I will build a coffee can forge to work with it hot, or do I anneal it like other non-ferrous metals.

Any input is appreciated.


-Xander
 
it is likely a casting bronze, if it is yellow it likely has zinc in it which will make toxic fumes when melted, if it is reddish it may be a copper-tin traditional bronze, either way you do not want to spill any in a forge you will be using for steel. It should sand cast or investment cast well, forging it may not work so well.

-Page
 
Or..... At $2.00 a pound or so for scrap, you could scrap it and spend the money on whatever you want....:D
 
Thanks Page. I left it at the shop but I did snap a pic of it at the job site. It is oxidizing on the reverse with the green color I know that Cu does. I don't know if zinc based bonze turns green though. Here it is...

2011-07-12094322.jpg


I know its not the best pic, but its all I got right now. I don't know if you can tell from this or not, but I am sure someone with more experiance than I can tell.


Xander
 
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From the looks of things you have taken someone's tombstone and are now talking about melting it down to use the bronze.

Does this not seem a little bit messed up to anyone else?
 
Naugh, digging up the bones and using them might be a stretch though. Only because they'd be a stranger's. If they were family's then it would be OK too. ;) Say if the stone's in good shape, ya might have the makings of a good flat and smooth granite sanding slab.
 
If you're "not allowed" to find the previous tennants, I would suggest...at the very least.....turning it over to
the proper authorities.....so that it can hopefully be returned to the appropriate grave.....
 
It was my impression that the tombstone was removed from the grave. He says he took it from the backyard. Why else would there be a tombstone?

Occasionally people bury their family on their own property, especially if they have a large estate. Sometimes it's a wish of the deceased and it is legal to do it as long as it meets certain guidelines.
 
James0723 said:
From the looks of things you have taken someone's tombstone and are now talking about melting it down to use the bronze.

Does this not seem a little bit messed up to anyone else?
Click to expand...

Did you not read my original post? I had to remove it from a vacant bank owned property and am not allowed to track down the previous tennants to return it. I only have a few options, scrap it for beer money if I can get a place to take it, throw it away, or let it live on as a piece of functional art in a knife. I don't want to do either of the first two, I think that would be messed up. Oh an this house is in the city limits and not some ranch where someone might actually be burried. This may have been an extra headstone they decided to put in their yard. I am sure if it meant a whole lot to them they would have taken it.

Phil, thanks for the links. No granite slab with this one, all that broken concrete in the picture is what it was on. I have two large granite counter top slabs I use fo flat sanding and two 12x12 marble tiles as well for smaller stuff. Now I need to start researching safe smelting and casting procedres.


-Xander
 
Yes, it may have been an extra headstone someone decided to put in their yard, maybe Halloween is their favorite holiday and they wanted a realistic prop.

It seems a bit more likely that a headstone is there because it's actually marking a grave.

And what do you mean you're not allowed to track down the previous tenants? What are you an 8 year old kid working for your mom? Just make contact with the previous tenants, it's the decent thing to do, especially if you did take a tombstone from a real grave.
 
+1 on that.

I'd wanna make damned sure there wasn't a body underneath.

Last owners aren't going to remove it if Uncle Bill is down there.

Might have been serving it's purpose.
Marking a final resting place.
 
I'd hate to buy a place and find out Uncle Bill was there, just imagine all the legal BS that is now your problem...
 
James, I do hope it is an extra. The banks try to eliminate all possible ways to commit fraud. Its pretty bad in this industry, lots of "fly by night" operations. They don't want contractors dealing with tennants. That and I would have to pull tax records to find the previous owners. Oh, and 8 was a couple of decades ago. ;)

Count, I don't think the legal issues would be my problem, I simply provide labor to the banks and realtors for what they specify. I just hope so, its not my license at stake. I really hope a listing agent did not ask for it to be removed to avoind disclosing it.

Joe, that Anso folder is very nice. He sure is making waves with textures and materials. I always like his stuff.


Mods, I didn't intend to troll or ignite a debate over moral issues with this thread. I was seriously asking for help with this material.


-Xander
 
Xander,
I hope it was not a grave either. From everything you say, and the evidence, it looks likely that there is a grave under the place where the stone was.
I know that the removal of a grave from property to make the land more salable is not uncommon. The proper way is to exhume the remains and re-bury them in a cemetery, along with all the proper permits and fees. This is costly and a common method is to hire someone to just remove the marker and grade over the site. I would be concerned over the "Mums the word" thing.
If there is a legal issue, you are very involved. If I hire you to break into a bank, you can't use, "I was just an employee" as a defense. I believe you suspect that this is a grave marker.

Just to play the other side of the record, it could have been some sort of a memorial garden or such with a stone monument and plaque....I'm betting that is what you are hoping for.
 
Stacy, I really do hope it was just a memorial garden marker. It was in a raised flower bed at the foot of a young mulberry tree. Neithr of which are as old as the date on the marker. This house is barely that old as well. Everyone, I will not do anything with this plaque until further information is gathered about it purpose in that yard.

Now to get back on topic. Count, thanks for that link, lots of info there. I also have access to other bronze sources from old boat parts. I am curious about bronzes ability to hold up to use on a knife. I do suspect that bronze used in boats I going to have zinc in it though.



-Xander
 
I don't think it would be a huge endeavor to get some info from the newspaper records office. They probably have the obituaries on microfilm.

Pretty weird that it would be in someones back yard in a raised bed. Check the town ordinances. Not only would they be able to tell you if it could be real, but they would have to have a record of some sort if it is actually a grave.

Screw the bank's rules on it. That's just pure BS.

There has got to be a record of it if it's a grave. Ask the sheriff. That might even be the best place to start. It would surely take the burden off of you, and put it on the bank, where it should be in the first place. I'm sure that they want it swept under the rug, but the possibility of immorality, and legality is on you, I'm afraid. If the bank fires you for doing the right thing, they would be in a heap of trouble.
 
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