Some task-oriented work with a Jaguar POS (400K)

[kel_aa]

Along with the order of my Spyderco Military from a Canadian web retailer, they threw in a 1 4/5 inch blade, 3 inch handle, 1.5mm stock folder marked Jaguar and China. As they weren't too embarrased to include them in the same package to the same buyer (com'on, it's a Spyderco Military I bought, not some UC collectable), I'm not going to complain about free stuff. So I put it to some work to see what this thing can do. Imagine this as something you find in the rubble of a ransacked 7/11 store in a post-apcocalyptic world. Then it might be considered a Sebenza over all the austentic stainless knives the other survivors ground from kitchen sinks.

A picture of the Jag along with a SAK Cadet and Classic:

The piece can be considered unsharpened. The bevel was obtuse and didn't meet. I spent 5 minutes on a coarse stone and ended up with a 20 degree bevel on one side and a 15 degree bevel on the other. The edge still did not meet at the last 1/2 inch or so of the blade near the handle, as it was difficult to sharpen for a variety of reasons. A 20 degree edge each side was put on with a Sharpmaker. With a burr, it shaved readily. But removing the burr was very difficult, requiring ever increasing sharpening angle. After I was satisfied with having removed the burr, it could no longer shave at all. Keep in mind this only has about 1 1/4 inch of sharpened edge.

Post sharpening 20 degree side:

Task for today: making a budget pasta dinner.

Opening the can of pasta sauce was accomplished by first driving the point through the top with the palm. Subsequent cutting was done by angling the knife 45 degrees, and pushing down on the spine directly on top of where it contacts the lid. Cuts the other way were done by driving the point with the palm into the lid near the rim, then wedging the point agains the side of the can and pushing down on the far end of the handle. No damage was substained from this activity.

The blade was rinsed and a cut attempted on some rolled up newspaper (cut under its own rigidity). It was able to slice/saw through it with some time. The second shot was with the Spyderco Military. Being sharper and having more blade length, it required less sawing and made a cleaner edge, but it was not magnitudes easier.

 

[kel_aa]

A large ripe tomato was cut up into cubes (you see 1/2 of it here). It didn't have a problem with the skin. And for some protein, some salted herring. The cuts were clean.

At this point cutting open the plastic bag containing the pasta was attempted. It could not start a cut from the side. What I did was push the knife through the bag, and slice it out to the edge.

In keeping with the post-apocalyptic theme, the can was turned into a water kettle by punching two holes into the side. The knife was held like a nail and tapped into the side with a brick. It was then levered sideways to expand the hole, through which you can run some wire or cordage to make handle for your kettle. The edge did nick at one place when it was levered sideways.

The lock was lose to begin with (but it was rigid with respect to positive blade loading), but it didn't fail at all. I always tried to keep my fingers out of the way in case it collapsed. Furthurmore, it appears it is not that demanding to open a can with the proper technique. It was still able to do work afterwards despite only having 1 1/4 inches of edge. But still don't ask me use any of my other knives for to do this unless it can't be avoided. Most SAK's have a can opener. If we are not considering that, I think I would prefer to use this lockback compared to a SAK blade in opening cans.

Life is good with this "Sebenza".

What furthur sort of task-oriented work do you guys suggest? I'm not really interest in raw edge retention (I think it's something like 420 steel), but rather edge damage and lock work.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cutting thick plastics (heavy pop bottles), cutting various gauges of wire/rod, cutting thin sheet metals, carving light bones into needles/hooks/buttons, cutting knotty wood to shape, scraping woods for tinder, cutting sod/roots/tubers.

-Cliff

 

[FlyingMuskrat]

In keeping with the post apocalyptic theme you could see what kind of edge it takes from a rock\brick\cinder block.

 

[kel_aa]

I'm trying to keep the image sizes small as this thread is growing quite big for the dialup users. I scavenged some more junk, a 1.9L Gatorade bottle, some heavy >1.5mm copper wire with PVC? insulation, some pine 2x2, 2x4 Premium cut that is quite knoty, and a 1.5mm thick irregular piece of plastic. The rock is a piece of cement/mortar, but I decided against using that to sharpen the knife as I wanted to know how a known edge (angle, finish...) responded to work. The Jag since last time was touched up with about 20 passes on the brown rod corners at 20 degrees per side and a few passes on the rod flats. It had some newspaper slicing ability.

The bottle was cut into a scoop (for water, snow, grains, sand, whatever). I tried to cut through the bottom of it, but it was very difficult to proceed. With some batoning, I got to where it is indicated by the red arrow.

Then I tried to turn the irregular piece of plastic into a rectangle shaped object suitable for say a goggle (for snow storms, dust, sand, or occupational safety). I tried to baton it, but again it wasn't going anywhere. I tried to use the knife like a chisel with the 2x2 as a baton and to my surprise with good results. The plastic fractured readily in the edge to spine direction of the knife.

I then stripped the insulation from an 18in or so section of the wire. I batoned the knife into the wire to cut it, but with several moderate hits it would only go 1/3 the thickness. But subsequently the wire broke easily upon bending. I tried breaking the wire purely by bending until failure, but that was difficult due to the thickness and the fact that the copper work hardens.

The knife was used as a drill to make some holes in the piece of plastic. The PVC? insulation made some good cordage.

I tried splitting a slab of the 2x2. It stalled at about here:

The knife didn't respond well to batoning as with impacts the lock would often pop out. So while in theory you should be able to split this wood with a knife of the same size, it's really not going to happen this thing before it becomes unususable.

It's strength is really in the through-axis loading. I tried batoned the knife most of way into the wood. At this point it pretty much would not go in furthur. The 1.5mm thickness didn't induce much splitting. I guess you could split the slab like this if you do it the whole length of the piece. The slab splitting was easily accomplished by a Mora carbon lam. While the knife was in the wood, I tried folding the knife closed with moderate force from the shoulder. The whole handle assembly woudl flex, but not unlock.

Some damage was substained in during the bottle cutting as seen through some very small reflective spots. The stripping of the PVC? insulation wasn't a breeze due it not being especially sharp, but easily doable. Since you inevitable knick the copper core, and that contributed some additional reflective spots. Batoning the copper didn't produce gross damage. In the end, the blade had trouble slicing newspaper with any regularity.

So I guess it is fairly amazing what a knife (any knife) can do. In a surivial situtation, it will make your life that much easier. I know some of you have had knives fall apart in your hands with light use. This "Sebenza" hasn't yet. After this, the lock would not set by itself for a while, but the problem the problem disappeared with some cycling of the lock. The blade is much looser now, you can hear some rattling if you shake it. Due to its poor response batoning, I think it'll be difficult to cut sheet metal. I think I'll try some bone-carving next.

 

[jtb49er2000]

Very interesting testing! Most folks (including myself) here turn their nose up to POS knives, but I like your thinking that in a survival situation you most likely won't have your choice of cutlery available. I know it's everybody's dream of finding an unraided Gander Mountain or Bass Pro Shop if such a situation occurred, but the reality is that you might be lucky to find any sort of decent knife if you didn't already have one with you. Again, interesting ideas here, and please keep up the tests!

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Very nice work, ironically work which is often considered abusive to many of the higher end tactical/survival folders. Heavy plastic is very difficult to cut as it is so rigid, it can be broken with bending like the wire or even torn by hand once cuts are started. The knife can also be severely heated which makes it cut much better but you are going to end up mangling the already less than optimal steel, you can of course use the wire to cut it by heating it. With wood, once the split has started you can usually pull it apart, if not with yout hands then by looping the wire or similar in the cut, walking on the board and then just pulling up, or using wedges of course.

-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

I don't think the idea of abuse is connected with critical failure. I consider abuse as anything that will likely change the characteristics of the knife in a dramatic way (edge quality, blade length, lock tighness....). The knife can still survive the abuse, but that doesn't make it abuse nonetheless. The the work done on the 2x2 was abusive to this knife, but everything else is fair. The loose lock made the initial sharpening on a benchstone somewhat more difficult, and it'll be more difficult still now that it's even looser. It's not that much of a hinderence in actual use though as it's still rigid after you take up the slack.

You do what you have to do, but you'll have to live with the consequences of [possible] damage. Assuming a Voyager or Delica/Endura behaves the same way [porportionally], I wouldn't want to reduce it to the fit/finish of a $5 knife if it can be reasonably avoided.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I consider abuse as anything that will likely change the characteristics of the knife in a dramatic way (edge quality, blade length, lock tighness....).

Consider for example if I took a Spyderco Endura and used it as the primary knife to cut insulation. In a very short period of time the knife would have extreme and dramatic wear. It would not be unexpected to have to sharpen the knife a 10-20 times in a day and a fairly coarse stone would be used to provide maximum edge retention / speed of honing.

In just a few weeks the knife would literally be sharpened hundreds of times on a coarse stone and see significant metal loss. Is this abusive though - the knife would be worn out within a fraction of the normal/average lifetime. There are also even more difficult materials to cut, so much so that even one session of cutting them can actually change how a knife looks.

I would define abuse to be use outside the scope of work of the tool which raises the stress to such a level that gross damage or significant degredation in functionality is immediate and usually in different vectors than the intended use and often to such an extent that the tasks can not be repeated significantly.

[higher end]

I wouldn't want to reduce it to the fit/finish of a $5 knife if it can be reasonably avoided.

You would expect them to be better able to take similar work and the lock to be uneffected to much higher loads, consider the various Spyderco ratings. How much better should a $50-$150 folder be over that knife in regards to durablity/scope of work? I think low end benchmarks like the above are just as critical as work with the other range of knives.

Aesthetics is always a concern and some do hesitate to use higher end knives for such reasons, obvious an issue for resale concerns. Most would likely hesitate to carry this for that reason :

That's Clements's sheath work. I can understand the viewpoint but personally I see it as a huge waste to not appreciate all elements of the design and the functionality is just as important to Clements as the aesthetics.

Note, if you baton with the lock not engaged it is also much easier on the knife, you can use this for wood, plastics and metals. What would also be of worth is long term use. Note Vincent has commentary on a related issue :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=389144



-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

The knife was reground to 15 degrees per side very close to the edge, sharpened with 20 degrees per side with 30 passes each side on the brown rod corners, and a few passes on the flats and at higher angles to deburr. I did the high number of passes because I have been surprised that the knife has never been able to cut unsupported newspaper readily nor shave (apart from the first sharpening when it had an obvious burr).

I looked at the neighborhood supermarket for some suitable base material for a bone needle. The options were New Zealand mutton shanks or poultry drumsticks. I purchased two turkey drumsticks. The first cut opening them down to the bone was clean. It was able to cut muscle and skin without a problem. The tendons/ligements were a little more demanding but still doable.

The ends of the bones were smashed with a rock. You can access the marrow this way, but that wasn't my concern. From the "hollow" tubes, I batoned/cracked off some usable pieces.

Using a technqiue similar to the above for cutting the piece of plastic (using a baton to hit the knife like a chisel creating controlled fractures), a piece of the bone was rough shaped. I did some shaping by shaving. You can see the size of the shavings in the picture above, as well as the edge configuration of the knife. The glint is from the 20 degree edge.

The bone was can also be readily ground with the benchstone. Using a combination of shaving and grinding, a needle was produced suitable for probably something like canvas or leather. An eye was drilled with the knife.

The needle was able to be pushed through 44 layers of newsprint when support on the other side. It can be pushed through both sides of a toilet paper roll without support. Along with a SAK toothpick for size comarison:

The downward batoning dulled the tip much more than previous work. The edge didn't suffer any damage. I tried some shaving with the factory edge of the SAK Classsic (picture in post 1). It was able to shave easier, but the edge rolled (of course SAK steel is notorious for rolling). I checked the angle on the sharpmaker and it was 20 degrees per side.

I wasn't too aggressive in terms of my needle design for the fear of breaking while forming it. While this needle is too large to do finer work, it is only a matter of time and effort to produce a smaller needle.

--------------------

What does the Spyderco ratings actually mean? As I understand it, it states how much torque was applied before the lock fails in the static tests. Does it consider loosening of the FRN and pivot pins when say 80% of the rated load is reached?

I batoned with the lock disengaged when I could hit it directly above the thing you are trying to cut (the copper wire). However, when I cannot, it is very cumbersome to provide the counterforce on the handle handle end without the lock engaged on a small piece like this when most of the blade is sucken into the material.

Losing material from the blade in the form of wear and sharpeing and occassional chipping is to be expected. I guess my main objection to demanding work is that I really don't like loosening of the handle/lock (despite the fact that it retains most of the functionality). Prehaps part of the reason I err on the side of caution is the difficultly in predicting on an individual basis what a sample can take before it loosens even though you have used those designs before, for the reasons of manufacturing and material variance. There are samples that have problems before any use, samples that develope problems during use, and samples that are always rock solid with the same use.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I did the high number of passes because I have been surprised that the knife has never been able to cut unsupported newspaper readily nor shave ...

Push or slice?

Nice needle work, I have done bone hooks made by a similar process in a couple of styles, J shaped as well as just double edges. I am curious if I can hook a fish with them and some line made from roots. Any estimates of how much time it would have taken to shape the needle just with abrasives, including the hole, with and without the knife?

What does the Spyderco ratings actually mean? As I understand it, it states how much torque was applied before the lock fails in the static tests. Does it consider loosening of the FRN and pivot pins when say 80% of the rated load is reached?

No. When this was first massively hyped, brought out by REKAT and the 1000 in.lbs, I questioned both the application to dynamic use and the ignorance of the point of user functinality and pure focus on gross failure - aside from the point that it was never stated accurately and usually described like 1000 pounds of pressure or similar contradictory units. It is better than nothing of course but I would like to see some secondary points (like yield/tensile) and dynamic loading.

I batoned with the lock disengaged when I could hit it directly above the thing you are trying to cut (the copper wire).

Yes, you are limited to actually trying to provide countertorque by opposing rotation of the wrist or just pulling down on the handle. This works ok to some extent on larger knives, but is physically demanding and in this case I am not sure it would be of benefit to minimize damage from handle loads anyway.

Losing material from the blade in the form of wear and sharpeing and occassional chipping is to be expected. I guess my main objection to demanding work is that I really don't like loosening of the handle/lock (despite the fact that it retains most of the functionality).

Yes, a common complaint. Ironically the two most common work knives for tradesmen are very blade unstable. Olfa knives are not blade rigid, you can move the blade readily vertically and side to side with your hand. Of course the actual knife isn't locked into position in your hand and thus sees movement from that connection not being ideal either. Functionally it makes little difference unless the blade is so extreme is causes issues with precision or accuracy either in initial starting point or travel in the cuts. This takes pretty extreme limits though. I have had folders so floppy you could hear them clacking if you just wiggle your wrist but they were perfectly fine in use.

Prehaps part of the reason I err on the side of caution is the difficultly in predicting on an individual basis what a sample can take before it loosens even though you have used those designs before, for the reasons of manufacturing and material variance. There are samples that have problems before any use, samples that develope problems during use, and samples that are always rock solid with the same use.

Such are the concerns with one shot evaluations. It takes awhile before experience starts to allow predictions of normality and even then you really want a larger random sample before you would be really confident in projections.

-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

It can slice fine when you are holding the newspaper inline of with the cut (but then so can an unsharpened plastic ruler). But under other setups, it is rough and inconsistant, sometimes gets caught up and tear.

I imagine bone, especially from these long members is anisotropic. Not as bad as wood, but how well does a J shaped hook resist fracture? I am not sure how an eye can be made without something like a blade tip or SAK awl, or at least a piece of metal. Dig it out with a sharp rock flake?

I am curious if I can hook a fish with them and some line made from roots.

I would think the weak link would be the attachment of the line to the hook and the line itself. I think the fish should be fairly easy to fool. How big of a hook are you using? I photographed some bentwood hooks, and fellow forum members provided details on their usage: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411026

Grinding the bone was faster than shaving when using a coarse benchstone. I shaved a lot of it to see how the edge would respond.

You can get to picture 2 without a knife at all. The knife was very useful for cracking off the bulk of the bone to rough shape the needle (from picture 2 to picture 3). Without a knife or some other tool you can use as a chisel, it would take a while to reduce a bone of that size. From picture 2 to picture 5 was about 12 minutes, working at an leisurely and investigative pace as this was my first time doing it. I would have saved some time if I didn't carve and just ground. Doing it again, maybe 5-7 minutes vs 20-25 minutes without a knife?

Such are the concerns with one shot evaluations. It takes awhile before experience starts to allow predictions of normality and even then you really want a larger random sample before you would be really confident in projections.

Take user feedback for a specific model for a manufacture for instance. Suppose 1% have some play to begin with, 9% develope play with very light use, 20% develope play with light use, 30% with moderate use, and 40% remain solid after moderate use. So you purchase a sample, and it doesn have blade play. Not that 1%. You use it up to light use and it is still fine. So you are not of the lower 30% in terms of quality, but you are still uncertain which of the upper category you fall into. It is still a crapshoot as far as the user holding that knife is concerned. I made up the ratios, but even if the numbers are much in favour of the remain solid category (80 vs 20), it still doesn't make me feel any better having a statistical rarity in my hands.

 

[kel_aa]

I pounded the Jag into a 2x2 again, tied it to a cinderblock that has been somewhat exposed to a little rain, and eased up the load onto the knife. I apparently didn't pound it in deep enough as the knife cut through a lot of the wood and settled in this position:

I estimated the weight of the cinder block to be about 35 pounds. My calculations are that the lock was under 35.35 pounds of tension and 31.85 inch*pounds of torque.

I took it out, tried again, but as I was pounding it I noticed some damage to the plastic handle. You can see the lighter areas that indicate deformation and the crack from the pivot to the front. I'm not sure where the crack is from, but the pivot pin was cutting into the FRN from the batoning:

I tried loading it up again but this time the lock failed very quickly as I was easing the load onto the knife:

But not all is lost. It can still baton a weathered 1x6, for instance:

 

[Vivi]

Nice threaad, really enjoyed it. It's rare to see any type of knife actually pushed hard in this forum. Maybe I'll take one of my chinese pos folders and try this, or my buck mini that your jaguar copied the design from.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...how well does a J shaped hook resist fracture?

It isn't one piece, it is more like an asymmetric vee.

I am not sure how an eye can be made without something like a blade tip or SAK awl, or at least a piece of metal. Dig it out with a sharp rock flake?

Most local rocks are easy to fracture to produce such a boring edge. If you are really determined you can drill it out with sand.

I would think the weak link would be the attachment of the line to the hook and the line itself.

The fish are small, 8" would be big, the cord strength isn't an issue.

Suppose 1% have some play to begin with, 9% develope play with very light use, 20% develope play with light use, 30% with moderate use, and 40% remain solid after moderate use. So you purchase a sample, and it doesn have blade play. Not that 1%. You use it up to light use and it is still fine. So you are not of the lower 30% in terms of quality, but you are still uncertain which of the upper category you fall into. It is still a crapshoot as far as the user holding that knife is concerned. I made up the ratios, but even if the numbers are much in favour of the remain solid category (80 vs 20), it still doesn't make me feel any better having a statistical rarity in my hands.

In general no, you really don't know that the knife won't fall apart the next time you use it, though experience starts to allow such obversations in some extent. This is where the mass communication of the internet comes into play because you can poll for feedback and customer service responce. This is one of the reasons I link reviews to general public forums as it gives feedback to an area I don't moderate which is essential as otherwise cultism tends to prosper unless you are very careful. But of course regardless you can't make definate statements about individuals aside from statistical inferences.

I tried loading it up again but this time the lock failed very quickly as I was easing the load onto the knife

Which is a question relevant to often promote lock strengths. What is the multiple load break point. At what percentage of maximum strength does it see failure after ten loads, 100, etc. .

-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

I found a piece of air duct made of what appears to be stainless steel (I'd assume it's austentic) of about 0.4-0.5 mm thickness. I tried to baton it, and after much work produced two cuts of about half inch deep, a little deeper than the width of the blade. Those of you who have worked with sheet metal know that stainless is usually found harder than carbon steel. This is really some hard stuff compared to the mild steel of food cans. Furthurmore, the cut tended to turn to the left both times for some reason.

I also found a square piece of similar description of about 0.6-0.7 mm thickness. I proceeded to baton the point through it. With the lock engaged and batoning on the end of the handle, the lock is now collasping frequently. One way to baton that seemed to circumvent this problem is to close the knife and baton directly ontop of the pivot. It went through after much work. I tried to baton the cut out to the edge but that was uneventful.

The edge sustained a lot of damage. The edge was really rippled with pseudo-serrations, like the sort of edge you get when you open a can with a SAK can-opener. There is a huge dent near the tip where the whole 20 degree edge was offset to one side.

I'm not sure of the factors that resulted in the sideway loading of the edge. Possible factors that might give such results:
the way I'm holding the knife and baton
the material tends to direct the edge to one side
the grind is not exactly symmetrical causing uneven forces

One thing I did learn is that this scrap stainless steel is hard for a non-heat treated material and my knife steel is soft and tough for a stainless knife steel, as there were no chipping and only severe deformation.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Many of those steels work harden when deformed and are thus hard to cut. When you are cutting through them then the sides of the metal will somewhat stabilize the edge and prevent lateral loading. However if you are getting no to little travel per impact then the side loading just from the random perpendicular component of the impact vector is likely to cause significant deformation. You can see this effect in metal cutting in general where for example you get less damage on heavy impacts which cut through the metal than lighter impacts which leave the edge in the metal. Again, nice work, very interesting. You should submit it to Blade. I doubt it would get published as there is no commercial appeal, but the results would certainly surprise many people.

-Cliff

 

[kel_aa]

Yes, there was little or no travel per impact. I think the material can be cut with much less difficulty if it were an rectangular piece clamped in a vice and I were using a hammer to baton it. You can make a nice square-shaped pan from a large piece like that, but this thing is too hard to work with in the field.

What sort of failures have you noticed that has caused a knife to litterally fall apart? Here the failures are due to the crack in near the blade pivot. It doesn't hold the lock and blade in the same plane anymore with impacts; the blade and lock tends to end up beside eachother. You can use your thumb and forefinger to pinch the FRN sides to keep it from opening up, but during batoning that causes much jarring to the hand.

As such, the knife is still about as functional as a poorly made slip joint, which from a survival/made-do point of view is still a valuable possession. I actually broke off a flap (bent back and forth any times) from the air duct and will see what kind of edge it can keep. I think it'll do decently as a food preparation/ meat cutting knife. Any bets on as to whether it can open up some canned food?

I'm not sure if Jaguar, in the above style is an actual brandname, probably more like a generic name quite a few factories in China are producing. I think it would have a reverse commerical appeal for Blade if it were published. But I think $20 a copy is an fairly expensive subscription anyways and cannot see much personal interest in paying that for what information/entertainment they can offer. I believe quality information/knowledge can still exist without costing a penny.

 

[kel_aa]

Cliff, I've noticed that you linked my photo of the marsensite carbon content vs hardness graph on your site. I'll try to scan a better picture when I get the book out of storage. I've this hardness vs tempering temperature graph for various carbon steels, and prehaps it'll be helpful for you to direct dicussions or what not:

http://www.picturehosting.org/images/kelaa/hardnessvtempering.jpg


The caption is: Correlation of carbon content of martsensite and hardness of different Fe-C alloys at different tempering temperatures.

From Smithells Metals Reference Book, Eighth Edition, Gale, W.F., ed. 2004, reproduced from Grange, R.A, Hribal, C.R., and Porter, L.F., Metallurgical and Materials Transactions, 1977, Vol8A, p. 1775-1785.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

What sort of failures have you noticed that has caused a knife to litterally fall apart?

I have seen a lot of knives of that class broken, these are usually by tradesmen who use them as utility tools and thier lateral strength is really low. In general if you just pinch the blade and the handle, you can flex your wrist and pop it apart. This means that if you try any hard cutting, 50+ lbs and there is lateral loading it is likely to fail as well.

I picked up one awhile back, mainly after being inspired by the above. It can actually perform most cutting tasks much better than a lot of the "tactical" folders/fixed blades I have seen. I have no doubt that it would go with prying immediately as I can flex it in hand. I don't think it will even stand up to really heavy wood carving. I think the blade will just fold backwards onto the handle.

I think you have a nice crop of urban survival tests in the above. It would be interesting to explore these in detail with upscale knives. I'd like to see an ICCT competition along those lines.

I think it would have a reverse commerical appeal for Blade if it were published.

As would most facts.

I believe quality information/knowledge can still exist without costing a penny.

Sure, just ask someone who isn't selling anything.

Thanks for the graph, I'll be adding it shortly.

-Cliff