Some things I have learned making Damascus

Tom Lewis

Tom Lewis

Joined
Feb 24, 2000
Messages
1,862
Back in 1991 I attended the ABS Damascus class in Washington Arkansas. Since then I have made lots of Damascus. I thought I would mention some things that have helped me and might help others.
1. A couple of years ago I put a pyrometer probe in my gas forge. Before I had the pyrometer I would judge the color of the billet and the flux activity before welding. Now, I use the temperature. It is much easier for me and I have not had a weld fail since.
2. A few years ago I re-did my gas forge and put two inches of insulation in it. That has made a huge difference. The forge heats up much faster and heats the billet up much faster.
3. I have experimented with different kinds of flux. Right now I am using anhydrous borax. With the anhydrous I use very little. That makes it easier on the forge floor, and there is less splatter when I weld the billet. Where I live in the desert the anhydrous lasts a long time. I just used the last of a gallon can which lasted several years and it was still good.
4. I set the initial weld with my hydraulic press. I use large flat dies and press the billet together all at once. This also has the advantage of reducing flux splatter in the initial weld.
After the initial weld I use my 100lb power hammer to draw the billet out.

I invite responses, but if you care to give advice I think it would be nice to provide a picture of your work like the picture below.
JTPEvJR.jpg
 
Higher alloys require less temperature. Maximum forgeability for most high alloy and martensitic stainless steels is between 2050’ and 2150’f. Hot ductility curves are generated for these alloys, they become harder to forge or roll if you exceed a certain temperature.

100% of the time, smiths think that higher temps are needed for higher alloys. The opposite is true.

Hoss
 
Hoss, thanks for the information. I have been welding 1084 and 15N20 steel at 2250-2270 degrees.
 
DevinT said:
View attachment 1013970
Most guys weld too hot which makes the layers fuzzy. This was from a large kitchen knife, the bigger the knife, the better the damascus looks.
Hoss
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Hoss, that pattern is simply amazing!!! It shows real artistic creativity with a full understanding of pattern welding. My wife and I both simply say WOW!!!!
 
I have learned that composite blades are best forged and bent to shape... strategies for distortion control at the tip, such as birdsbeak welding, are paramount with multibar... that coffee or parkerizing give great contrast, that it requires quite a lot of planning to get the resolution and appearance right on your w's for your explosion edges, and that turkish is best twisted up tight and ground into deeply. Also, ladder bars give cool effects when used sideways!

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Whatever you do - ALWAYS!!!! - stack the deck in your favor.
I could elaborate on that statement until I got tired of typing.
For a quickie - I did learn that if you grind the layer edges smooth while doing layer multiplication welds for twist, you minimize the chance of tear precipitation later when forging the billet flat.
Wdk1E1u.jpg


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I could look at your Damascus work all day long, Pure beauty and craftsmanship guys.
Check out this you-tube vid on Woot Demascus, I found it very interesting.
 
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Salem Straub said:
I have learned that composite blades are best forged and bent to shape... strategies for distortion control at the tip, such as birdsbeak welding
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I saw you do that somewhere, Salem and I was wondering why you did. Is it just when trying to keep the outer bars on the outside?
 
It's so the pattern does not get all washed out and overly distorted at the tip... just a compositional nicety. If you're putting edge bars down the outsides of center pattern, it's nice to keep them as a tidy frame all the way to the tip and have them meet. It displays control. Others certainly do it better than I...
 
DevinT said:
Most guys weld too hot which makes the layers fuzzy. This was from a large kitchen knife, the bigger the knife, the better the damascus looks.

Hoss
Click to expand...


Absolutely right!


Tom did you notice when you put a thermocouple in your forge with a pyrometer, and started welding by the numbers, how much colder the forge was than when you were taught to weld by eye? Most people are running their "by eye" forges, well above 2400 degrees. 2300 is nothing like high yellow or white hot, it's a low yellow IMO. People throw numbers around, seemingly with confidence, but until you've actually used a pyrometer, you've got no clue what your temps are like, and it certainly shows in the steel.

You can also weld much lower than 2320ish that is commonly cited number. I agree that, for most, this is a good target welding temp, but all of us would do well to remember; it's time *AND* temperature, with all things steel. I've heard some great stories of Don Fogg welding damascus at hammer-ins back in the day, where 3 or 4 other JS and MS's would be sitting there trying to get his attention, saying the forge wasn't hot enough to weld, and it had been in there "too long", he'd just toss them a piercing glance, and say it was ok, while the minutes rolled on by, and keep talking. Soak about twice as long as any of us ever would. Pull out the billet finally, smack it around genlty, and get perfect welds and mind blowing (at the time) clarity.


Remember, iron and steel want to be joined, we're just creating an environment and circumstances that make it easier, and much faster, than it would happen "naturally".
 
Javand, concerning the color, that's hard to answer. Before I got the thermocouple I wore some type of a green face shield. Now with the temperature I don't look in the forge that often and I don't wear the green shield.
 
Tom Lewis said:
Javand, concerning the color, that's hard to answer. Before I got the thermocouple I wore some type of a green face shield. Now with the temperature I don't look in the forge that often and I don't wear the green shield.
Click to expand...

That's probably (definitely) for the best Tom. I've certainly done a ton of damage to my eyes, staring into the forge, at "too hot" temps, waiting to weld before I knew any better.
 
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