Some things to think about, cost vs quality

[Ankerson]

How much would you pay for a High Quality knife?

For most people spending $250 and up on a folding knife would just not happen so they buy the $50- $100 knives.

Also Spending $350 - $500+ on a fixed blade wouldn't happen either so they buy the Sub $100 to $150 knives fully expecting them to perform as well as the higher priced knives will.

But even at the cheapest price points THEY expect them to perform just as well at the knives at the higher price points and complain when they don't. But they will bash the makers of the higher quality, higher price knives every chance they get.

Most people just don't care about quality anymore, they shop price 1st and foremost. Quality doesn't even factor into it until something happens then they start screaming about how their POS $50 Fixed blade broke.

I have heard people comment about how over priced knives are from certain makers like Busse, ZT, and Strider. Things like I would never pay that much for a knife, that's too high etc. But they fully expect their $150 fixed blade to do the same things that the Busse will do. And they will slam the maker of the higher price blade the whole time for any reason, mostly it's BS though.

Then you hear people complain that X knife is made in China, well the people shop price so the maker is forced to have the knife made overseas to get the costs down so the idiot can buy his cheap knife.

The makers are not the problem, the customers are the real problem because they are just too stupid to look past cost and demand high quality products and pay for them.

As long as people keep buying crap the makers will keep putting it out there for them to buy.

Another thought, for what most people spend on Booze in a month or 2 if they saved that money they could buy just about any knife they wanted.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

In my world, which has something to do with auto repair, there are people who spend $1,500 on several sets of wrenches which will last a long time and are warrantied for life against wear and breakage. As a technician I will never spend that amount on wrenches even as I have $13,000 in tool boxes. The wrenches in question are actually worth much less. There are wrenches which will perform exactly as they do for maybe 60% the money but without the prestigious name attached. Ask around.

I bought an Extrema Ratio for $400, but I won't do that again for any knife regardless of function, materiels, what have you.
I will pay $200 for a top notch cutter, no problem, otherwise they can keep it.

 

[Roger999]

Another thought, for what most people spend on Booze in a month or 2 if they saved that money they could buy just about any knife they wanted.

That's how a lot of us justify knife purchases .

IMO knife purchases just get expensive when you have a knife addiction. I'm fairly new to knives and I like to try out new knife designs which appeal to me and I'm not going to buy custom knives just to try out different knives.

 

[Ankerson]

In my world, which has something to do with auto repair, there are people who spend $1,500 on several sets of wrenches which will last a long time and are warrantied for life against wear and breakage. As a technician I will never spend that amount on wrenches even as I have $13,000 in tool boxes. The wrenches in question are actually worth much less. There are wrenches which will perform exactly as they do for maybe 60% the money but without the prestigious name attached. Ask around.

I bought an Extrema Ratio for $400, but I won't do that again for any knife regardless of function, materiels, what have you.
I will pay $200 for a top notch cutter, no problem, otherwise they can keep it.

I hear you, you mean like Snap On. LOL

I will take Craftsman any day personally.

If I was going to spend that much on a blade ($400) I would be buying a fixed blade, not a folder.

 

[Ankerson]

That's how a lot of us justify knife purchases .

IMO knife purchases just get expensive when you have a knife addiction. I'm fairly new to knives and I like to try out new knife designs which appeal to me and I'm not going to buy custom knives just to try out different knives.

Yeah but if you spend it on knives and not booze you have some thing that's is still there for a long time and it can be sold later on if needed.

With Booze it's gone. LOL

 

[hardheart]

Your prices and expectations are way off, imo. I'm not even sure what a $250 folder will do that a $100 won't. What did my $700 folder do that your $250 didn't? It looked pretty with ano and machine turned Ti, mammoth scales, damasteel blade, and damascus bolsters. It was still just a knife.

People shop on price, and people shop on name, but not too many shop on performance, because there aren't that many performance tests, and those we have don't have a frame of reference. I can shop vehicles on hp, torque, skidpad, 1/4 and 0-60 times, fuel economy, and subjective opinions of comfort, nvh, feedback, etc.; and there are quantified comparison charts and tests. What do I get from a knife review? Included angle of the edge or primary grind, heat treat protocol, % RA, dynamic balance, CATRA results, charpy/izod, or much of anything outside of "it feels good and I cut down a couple saplings in the back yard without having to resharpen"?

Someone will look at your Snap On post and imagine that your cheap Craftsman junk will break and you will complain because you bought on price and not quality.

 

[T.K.C.]

As someone I respect once said: "BUy the best you can afford." I believe in this.

I buy what I like, and I happen to only like custom knives. That is one of the beautiful things about the knife world, is that there are enough knives to make us all happy.

 

[hushnel]

Yes people’s expectations can be too high, in both scenarios, inexpensive does not always mean cheap and off-shore neither does expensive always equal exquisite quality.

It’s usually the case that an expensive factory CNC blade is not as good of a deal as one wrought by fire and anvil, at half the price, by a skilled blade smith and in most cases customer satisfaction is not as important to the survival of the their business as it is to the independent blade smith.

My 35 year old Buck 110 sure looks its age with its tarnished brass bolsters and chipped rosewood inserts but for $25.00 and hard biker use it will surely last longer than I will. Equating inexpensive to cheap and stupid is not the intellectual high ground.

In my opinion.

 

[Ankerson]

Your prices and expectations are way off, imo. I'm not even sure what a $250 folder will do that a $100 won't. What did my $700 folder do that your $250 didn't? It looked pretty with ano and machine turned Ti, mammoth scales, damasteel blade, and damascus bolsters. It was still just a knife.

People shop on price, and people shop on name, but not too many shop on performance, because there aren't that many performance tests, and those we have don't have a frame of reference. I can shop vehicles on hp, torque, skidpad, 1/4 and 0-60 times, fuel economy, and subjective opinions of comfort, nvh, feedback, etc.; and there are quantified comparison charts and tests. What do I get from a knife review? Included angle of the edge or primary grind, heat treat protocol, % RA, dynamic balance, CATRA results, charpy/izod, or much of anything outside of "it feels good and I cut down a couple saplings in the back yard without having to resharpen"?

Someone will look at your Snap On post and imagine that your cheap Craftsman junk will break and you will complain because you bought on price and not quality.

Yeah there isn't many tests out there on folding knives or fixed blades for that matter, other than a few companies nobody publishes their test results, if they even test them at all. There needs to be more testing done on folders and fixed blades also so we can weed out the junk from the quality products.

The price points are just general , not to be taken literally as there are exceptions to every rule.

Personally I think once you get much beyond $250 on a folding knife you aren't gaining anything in performance, you are then in the Custom knife area.

Fixed blades now, well there are some $150 knives that will really perform, but not many though, most will be a lot higher priced, but even then people have to be careful.

When buying knives research is very important, I am more of a fixed blade person myself, always have been.

My Craftsman junk is warrantied for life (forever) so if something breaks I get a new one. Now if I was turning wrenches for a living I would likely buy some Snap On stuff too.

As someone I respect once said: "BUy the best you can afford." I believe in this.

I buy what I like, and I happen to only like custom knives. That is one of the beautiful things about the knife world, is that there are enough knives to make us all happy.

Good point and I feel the same way.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

I meant wrenches such as Proto, SK, Plumb, and Klein. Just as functional, strong, and long wearing as Snap, less the name, even have similar warranties. As far as buying the best we can afford I believe that as well, to quote Baltasar Gracian, who wrote a book on wordly wisdom, "use good instruments" ....but define 'best' first.... best is not in a linear relationship with most costly in any arena I think. And about there being enough knives to make us all happy - AMEN!

 

[Ankerson]

I meant wrenches such as Proto, SK, Plumb, and Klein. Just as functional, strong, and long wearing as Snap, less the name, even have similar warranties.

Klein makes some really good stuff, I have some Klein and Plumb tools. :thumbup:

 

[Fonly]

To be perfectly honest, some just cant afford it. some day I may be able to get a $700 knife, but considering thats a truck, insurance and phone bill a month, thats not going to happen for a LONG time.

When I see a knife for $150, I think its a little pricy, but its worth it. $300 on a knife is about my max. I don't look for customs, as they just don't do it for me. I could have had a few customs by know, but their just not my taste.

That said, makers now are coming out with some very nice looking knives at decent prices, like under $200 dollars, and even some under $100 so for people to say customs are too expensive, I don't believe that.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

Good points in the OP, there are more than a few people who will tell us their Strider is worth every penny, just because someone else doesn't agree wholeheartedly doesn't mean it isn't true. To quote the saying ..."things are worth what people will pay for them". There are some nice blades out there i would sure like to test drive but they are way out of my price range, oh well, I'll try not to hold it against the people who have and can afford them!

In my case as a mechanic I am suffering from equipment buying fatigue. In 20 years I have bought probably $70K worth of kit, so when a nice tool such as a knife has a hefty price I do balk at it, and so forth. I have never complained about a tools performance, if it didn't do what it was supposed to do then I am the one who made a mistake by buying it and not doing the research [good points in this thread about lack of research bodies] on it in the first place. If there is a workmanship issue, again it was me at fault for not buying a tool that has a decent warranty where I can resolve this type of problem.

RE: Klein, yeh they do!

 

[Ankerson]

Good points in the OP, there are more than a few people who will tell us their Strider is worth every penny, just because someone else doesn't agree wholeheartedly doesn't mean it isn't true. To quote the saying ..."things are worth what people will pay for them". There are some nice blades out there i would sure like to test drive but they are way out of my price range, oh well, I'll try not to hold it against the people who have and can afford them!

In my case as a mechanic I am suffering from equipment buying fatigue. In 20 years I have bought probably $70K worth of kit, so when a nice tool such as a knife has a hefty price I do balk at it, and so forth. I have never complained about a tools performance, if it didn't do what it was supposed to do then I am the one who made a mistake by buying it and not doing the research [good points in this thread about lack of research bodies] on it in the first place. If there is a workmanship issue, again it was me at fault for not buying a tool that has a decent warranty where I can resolve this type of problem.

RE: Klein, yeh they do!

This thread is going the way I had hoped it would, very positive. :thumbup:

Lack of research sources is the main problem I believe and also the lack of real testing by the manufactors other than a few.

Like the 2 to remain un named for this thread $300+ knives that broke when being driven through wood while a $20 knife did it no problem, so yeah research is very important.

 

[TheCarbideRat]

Zero Tolerance on youtube they said the 0100 fixed blade took 4,600 lbs. to break the blade, hopefully we will get more of this type info, and hopefully it is acurrate info. I think alot of makers shy away from this type of test, if I made a kickbutt knife I would do the tests.

 

[Ankerson]

Zero Tolerance on youtube they said the 0100 fixed blade took 4,600 lbs. to break the blade, hopefully we will get more of this type info, and hopefully it is acurrate info. I think alot of makers shy away from this type of test, if I made a kickbutt knife I would do the tests.

I agree we do need a lot more of this along with more independent tests to validate the makers tests.

Or they can do them live like Busse and Cold Steel do. :thumbup:

 

[Splat]

For folders, other than cosmetics I can't see the return being worth the cost of a knife >$200, even with M4, D2, S30V, and other premium steels that aren't necessarily scarce these days. I've handled/used Striders and a few other $200+ knives and honestly didn't see them performing better or lasting longer than what I own. My most costly knife is a BM Mini Rukus followed by a EKI Snubby.

 

[Ankerson]

For folders, other than cosmetics I can't see the return being worth the cost of a knife >$200, even with M4, D2, S30V, and other premium steels that aren't necessarily scarce these days. I've handled/used Striders and a few other $200+ knives and honestly didn't see them performing better or lasting longer than what I own. My most costly knife is a BM Mini Rukus followed by a EKI Snubby.

That really depends on the use of the knife, can it take abuse or not. Or is it just a pocket ornament to show off to friends because it looks cool?

I have broken more than a few knives over the years when someone shows me a knife and says man this knife is sick man, it's really a awesome knife, want to try it? Well then after a few mins they get it back in 2 pieces or more, then I continue to use my knife at the same task at hand. A lot of those had little thumb holes in the blade, but will remain un named.

Some knives will break very easy, while others will take a lot of punishment.

I have personally had folding knife blades shatter, and they where not cheap knives either.

Testing will really separate the good from the bad in a lot of cases.

Do you think a $30 knife can be driven with a hammer though a nail or a screw to cut it off? Maybe, maybe not, or will the blade shatter or break when it's hit with a hammer?

 

[pilote]

i see knife buyer in 3 categories: Users, Collectors, and Posers...each segment values knifes in different ways...

...for most people it is just a budget issue...for some it is "buy the best you can afford"; i personally temper that philosophy with a mental cost/benefit analysis...

i think the core issue (which Ankerson has illustrated) is that people should STFU about complaining that their $35 folder doesn't "deliver" like the $95+ folder that they really want, should have bought, could afford but don't want to afford...

you really want it, save more to buy it...wishing does not make it so...

Anecdote...met someone on a camping trip who had an obviously expensive fixed blade on his belt...we were all doing tasks that required blade use; this dude would not use the "prima donna" on his belt, asked him why, SAID HE DIDN'T WANT TO SCRATCH IT UP...f-en Poser; i let him use a taiwan-made SOG Field Pup (a $27 find) while i hacked and batoned my zt200...i do hate posers of all kind...

 

[Skrapmetal]

As someone I respect once said: "BUy the best you can afford." I believe in this.

I believe in it as well, but I also believe in not overpaying. Buy the best you can afford, but don't blindly assume that price = quality. I've got knives that cost $300+, but I wouldn't trust my life to them like I would the one I paid $150 for and carry daily. Granted, it's list price was $229... don't know if that counts though.