Someone explain reprofiling with the Edge Pro.

CrimsonTideShooter

CrimsonTideShooter

Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
3,196
I assumed that reprofiling with the edge pro meant that I set the angle I wanted, say 15 degrees, and I used the 120 to work the bevel all the way down to the edge until it formed a burr. Well I talked to Ben Dale about it and he said that wasn't the case. I didn't get to hear why, so I'm curious to know. Also I keep hearing of a technique where you make a "flat spot" on the edge then use a sharpie to do something or other to find the right angle? Ankerson mentions this quite often, and I still don't understand this technique or what it's purpose is. All I know is that he uses it for FFG blades.

Please explain to me how to properly reprofile using the edge pro. Thank y'all.
 
the sharpie is used to match the angle of the stones to the angle of the bevel.

you mark the blade with the sharpie, then run a stone over the mark. if the ink rubs off, you have matched the angle.

setting the edge pro to a specific degree won't necessarily mean your edge will be that same degree, as you have to account for the secondary bevel.


as far as reprofiling, i take that to mean you are changing the edge angle. start with a 40 degree inclusive edge, and take it down to perhaps 30.
 
I know about the sharpie being used to match the stone to the existing bevel, but the technique I was referring to goes like this (roughly)

1. Set FFG blade on table and set the arm at a really shallow angle.
2. Make "flat spot" on the bevel. (he calls it a flat spot, so does Ben)
3. Mark flat spot with sharpie.
4. Adjust arm to make the stone match the flat spot.
5. I don't know what happens after that or why you do this.


I don't understand this technique or what it does, but I know ankerson and others use it to reprofile FFG blades.




MORIMOTOM said:
the sharpie is used to match the angle of the stones to the angle of the bevel.

you mark the blade with the sharpie, then run a stone over the mark. if the ink rubs off, you have matched the angle.

setting the edge pro to a specific degree won't necessarily mean your edge will be that same degree, as you have to account for the secondary bevel.


as far as reprofiling, i take that to mean you are changing the edge angle. start with a 40 degree inclusive edge, and take it down to perhaps 30.
Click to expand...
 
On all of the blades there normally is a flat area you can rest on the edgepro, be is the riscasso or above the blade grind. You just set it on then and make a flat spot. Once you made it you can lay the blade on the part which would normally lay when the stone on the the edge so you dont have to work to hold it. Then use the sharpie trick to find the edge angle correctly.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
I don't understand this technique or what it does, but I know ankerson and others use it to reprofile FFG blades.
Click to expand...

An FFG blade is ground from the spine to the edge with it's particular angle. The angle settings on an Edge Pro are calibrated for a flat piece. This means that on an FFG blade the bevel angle setting on the EP is decreased by whatever the blade grind is on the blade. For example, if you set the EP at 15 degrees and the FFg blade's primary grind is say 4 degrees, this will then result in a bevel that is 4 degrees less than the setting on the EP.

When using Ankerson's technique you are compensating for the angle of the FFG by setting the EP's angle to the flat part of the blade near the ricasso. If followed correctly this technique will set the proper angle by setting a flat spot on the bevel that will correspond to the correct angle . When you then lay the FFG part of the blade on the table, all you need to do is adjust the arm of the EP to correspond to the flat part that you ground while the knife was laying on the flat part near the ricasso. You will then be closer to the actual angle setting than by just setting a bevel angle and grinding the knife when it's on FFG part of the blade.

I hope that makes sense.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
I know about the sharpie being used to match the stone to the existing bevel, but the technique I was referring to goes like this (roughly)

1. Set FFG blade on table and set the arm at a really shallow angle.
2. Make "flat spot" on the bevel. (he calls it a flat spot, so does Ben)
3. Mark flat spot with sharpie.
4. Adjust arm to make the stone match the flat spot.
5. I don't know what happens after that or why you do this.


I don't understand this technique or what it does, but I know ankerson and others use it to reprofile FFG blades.
Click to expand...


sorry about that.

i have no idea why this method is better.
 
MORIMOTOM said:
the sharpie is used to match the angle of the stones to the angle of the bevel.

you mark the blade with the sharpie, then run a stone over the mark. if the ink rubs off, you have matched the angle.

setting the edge pro to a specific degree won't necessarily mean your edge will be that same degree, as you have to account for the secondary bevel.


as far as reprofiling, i take that to mean you are changing the edge angle. start with a 40 degree inclusive edge, and take it down to perhaps 30.
Click to expand...
Precisely why I despise the thing:rolleyes:. You could rightly call me lazy, but I feel the Edge Pro demands too much work for a $200 system.
 
singularity35 said:
An FFG blade is ground from the spine to the edge with it's particular angle. The angle settings on an Edge Pro are calibrated for a flat piece. This means that on an FFG blade the bevel angle setting on the EP is decreased by whatever the blade grind is on the blade. For example, if you set the EP at 15 degrees and the FFg blade's primary grind is say 4 degrees, this will then result in a bevel that is 4 degrees less than the setting on the EP.

When using Ankerson's technique you are compensating for the angle of the FFG by setting the EP's angle to the flat part of the blade near the ricasso. If followed correctly this technique will set the proper angle by setting a flat spot on the bevel that will correspond to the correct angle . When you then lay the FFG part of the blade on the table, all you need to do is adjust the arm of the EP to correspond to the flat part that you ground while the knife was laying on the flat part near the ricasso. You will then be closer to the actual angle setting than by just setting a bevel angle and grinding the knife when it's on FFG part of the blade.

I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

what he said.

to make it short this method is used when the only flat spot availlable is too small the sharpen the whole blade correctly and easily. you create a bevel on the flat spot then lay the blade on the grind where it's easy to grind the whole lenght of the edge and compensate the angle difference by adjusting the stone arm to the bevel you've created.


and yes reprofiling is just changing the angle of the edge. if your knife came a 2x 25 you can reprofile it to 2x15°, 2x10 with 2X20° micro, whatever ...

and btw i'm perhaps too cautious but below 15° i'd avoid creating a burr with the 120 stone but that's just me.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Precisely why I despise the thing:rolleyes:. You could rightly call me lazy, but I feel the Edge Pro demands too much work for a $200 system.
Click to expand...

It only takes 2 or 3 minutes to set the angle even on a FFG where the grind angle has to be accounted for. I have paper wheels and I much prefer the crisp and even, near perfect edge the Edge Pro creates. Paper wheels make a convex edge and is harder to create just the type of edge I want. I also don't think the wheels thin out an edge very well or easily. The wheels also take off a lot more metal. I used the wheels exclusively on an EDC work knife that needed sharpening often and in 6 months a substantial and noticeable portion of the edge was missing. If you keep up with your knives and strop and hone often, the wheels and Edge Pro aren't even needed very often. But I stick with the edge pro for the most part unless I need to sharpen a bunch of knives that don't get sharpened often.
 
I'm not sure if this has been explained to your satisfaction, because each response requires some knowledge of what is actually being done to understand.

The "Flatspot" we refer to is the unground (flat) part of the blade at the ricasso, which is the narrow portion of the blade between where the blade is ground, and the hilt or handle of the knife.

What is trying to be accomplished in this process is putting a True particular angle on the blade, taking the angle of the particular grind, whether it be FFG or any other shape primary grind of the blade, out of the equation. This is most useful if you are trying to touch up your blade on a fixed angle unit like the Sharpmaker. If you just lay the primary grind on the bed, you have the angle of that grind to deal with. Setting your blade on the "flatspot", then setting the EP to 15*, then grinding a spot on the blade gives you a true 15* angle where you just ground.

Now, take the blade and lay it flat on the bed of the EP on the primary grind. This will give you the most stability in grinding the profile.

Take the sharpie and color the spot you ground when the blade was on the ricasso. Now that the blade is lying on the primary bevel, you can adjust the arm of the EP to match the angle of the colored area. Now you can grind the blade on it's most stable surface, and you are grinding it at a "True" 15*.

Now when you go to touch up the blade on the Sharpmaker, your true 15* bevels will match.

Hope that helps gel the rest of the technically correct explanations.
 
but ... you could also lay the knife on the grind and sharpen whatever angle seems adequate, try the knife, see if it works, change and go for the setting that works. this is the point of view where you want to get the even and polished edge the edge pro can give you and you don't care about what the actual edge angle is as long as it works.
 
Begging your pardon, you are correct that you can just put an arbitrary bevel on a blade and adjust the angle according to how it subsequently performs, however, oftentimes one would like to have a specific angle, either for touchups with a fixed angle jig, or to determine a blades capability at a specific, repeatable, identifiable angle.
 
I understand completely now. Thank you very much for taking the time to articulate it in a way I would understand.



grizzled gizzard said:
I'm not sure if this has been explained to your satisfaction, because each response requires some knowledge of what is actually being done to understand.

The "Flatspot" we refer to is the unground (flat) part of the blade at the ricasso, which is the narrow portion of the blade between where the blade is ground, and the hilt or handle of the knife.

What is trying to be accomplished in this process is putting a True particular angle on the blade, taking the angle of the particular grind, whether it be FFG or any other shape primary grind of the blade, out of the equation. This is most useful if you are trying to touch up your blade on a fixed angle unit like the Sharpmaker. If you just lay the primary grind on the bed, you have the angle of that grind to deal with. Setting your blade on the "flatspot", then setting the EP to 15*, then grinding a spot on the blade gives you a true 15* angle where you just ground.

Now, take the blade and lay it flat on the bed of the EP on the primary grind. This will give you the most stability in grinding the profile.

Take the sharpie and color the spot you ground when the blade was on the ricasso. Now that the blade is lying on the primary bevel, you can adjust the arm of the EP to match the angle of the colored area. Now you can grind the blade on it's most stable surface, and you are grinding it at a "True" 15*.

Now when you go to touch up the blade on the Sharpmaker, your true 15* bevels will match.

Hope that helps gel the rest of the technically correct explanations.
Click to expand...
 
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