Something Dumb

S

shivey

Joined
Sep 5, 1999
Messages
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I thought I might even out and darken the patina on a couple of my stockmen: a yellow handled Case and a stag Kissing Crane. Dropped them both in a bowl of vinegar with the blades partially open. After one hour, I retrieved the knives, only to find that a backspring was busted on each of them. Can anyone explain to this dummy WHY that happened???:o
 
Tom, I feel for you dude. I just gave my case yellow handled trapper a vinegar soak the other day and it came out ok. However, I only soaked the blades. I noticed that on the trapper the blades suffered some change in texture making them almost look like bad damascus. The vinegar got up onto the bolster and the spring were very sluggish until I oiled them alot. The vinegar surely has some corrosive properties. I'm sure some of the experts can explain this. Did the backsprings come loose at the pin or did they litteraly crack? Good luck...



Dean
 
>"Dropped them both in a bowl of vinegar with the blades partially open..."

======================

I certainly can't explain the busted backsprings and I don't want to kick you when you're down, but MAN I would not advise anyone to soak the entire knife in vinegar. :eek: You only want to give the blades that patina, not the bolsters, springs, pivot joints, liners, etc.
 
That sounds really stange that the springs broke after being soaked for a few hours. Never ever soak an entire knife in a bowl of vinegar or anything corrosive. you will usually end up with one stiff knife!!! As far as the springs being broken there had to be some kind of defect to begin with? :confused:
 
For a milder funner way to patina a pocket knife blade. Peel, slice and eat some citrus fruit. You will get some vit-a-mins and soon your blade will darken to a pretty natural looking age.
 
Thanks for the pity, guys....yes, the springs actually broke...and I DID think about it before I dropped the entire knives into the vinegar (may as well been carbolic acid). I figured the vinegar couldn't really hurt the handle materials - might clean up the stag - and my intention was to clean the knives with Break Free, wipe down, and lube with Rem Oil after the bath. I can't believe the springs were defective, great W&T in both knives, and have been excellent users for quite a while. Both had been used regularly to slice/peel fruit - and you know some of the juice had to rest on the backsprings inadvertently before they were next cleaned/oiled. Still can't figure it out.:confused:
 
I´ve done some testing with knives sunk in vinegar, once I left two old barlows in vinegar overnight, one came out fine and the other lost its shine and got small pits all over, another time I boiled two scout folders in vinegar for 10 minutes, they came out with dull dark grayish blades, one had a wood handle that became black and wouldn´t clean with sandpaper, the other one had plastic scales that shrunk from the heat. I never had problems with springs. I haven´t used vinegar since I bought a gun blue kit.
 
I have read somewhere in these forums that it stresses the backsprings to open more than one blade at a time.If they were only partially opened the springs would be at the maximum stress,as once the blade fully opens the tension is lessened.Sorry to hear about your mishap.Edited to add....By the way was the spring that was broken the one that had a blade on both ends,as opposed to the spring that only one blade on it?
 
The only way opening more than one blade at a time can hurt is if the blades are on opposite ends working off the same spring.
 
Yes, the springs that broke had tention on both ends. If I had fully opened all the blades (or left them closed) I doubt there would have been a problem. Still doesn't explain why they broke....cause I'm sure all of you have seen whittlers, stockmen, even four blade congresses displayed for sale for weeks, months on end, with all the blades partially opened - and no problems (except maybe weakened springs). And the vinegar was room temp., not chilled or heated. And the soak only lasted one hour. Any chemists out there?
 
Hello all. I don't know why the springs broke. I do know that vinegar and iron make a very strong black dye for wood, especially oak. The color is probably very deep into the wood. I use vinegar to remove firescale from forged blades. If you leave a thin blade in it long enough, it will look like swiss cheese. Try coating the steel parts that you don't want to patina with wax or parafin. Vinegar acts pretty quickly on some steels, but it is lot safer than some of the alternatives.
 
Were the springs actually broken when you retrieved the knives, or did they break as you moved the blade after retrieving? If the latter I was wondering if maybe the vinegar "etched/fused" the springs in place and moving the blades cased them to snap at the weakest point somewhere around the pin?

michael
 
Good reasoning, Sandrat, but both springs were protruding approx. 60-70 deg. in relation to the back of the knives when they were plucked from the bath. And both broke nearly half ways from the pivots. Rev, what you suggest IS possible, but perhaps too coincidental. The Case was only a 2001 model, and the Kissing Crane was a "95 model. The Germans, and in particular Robert Klass Co., are well respected for working wonders with the heat treat of their "Solingen" steel. But, of course, anything's possible. I wish I had a disposable ( if there IS such an animal) carbon bladed multiblade to try and duplicate the incident.
 
Good reasoning, Sandrat, but both springs were protruding approx. 60-70 deg. in relation to the back of the knives when they were plucked from the bath. And both broke nearly half ways from the pivots. Rev, what you suggest IS possible, but perhaps too coincidental. The Case was only a 2001 model, and the Kissing Crane was a "95 model. The Germans, and in particular Robert Klass Co., are well respected for working wonders with the heat treat of their "Solingen" steel. But, of course, anything's possible. I wish I had a disposable ( if there IS such an animal) carbon bladed multiblade to try and duplicate the incident .

Sorry about the double post!!!
 
If I were you I would send them to their persective manufacterers. Even though you voided your warranties they could at least give you an idea what happened. I would, you have nothing to loose except for the postage, and you never know, maybe they will repair them, or replace them, you never can tell with with manufacterers. Just write them a freindly letter explaining (and accepting reponsibility) what happened. It would be intersting if they could explain it, or if they have different ideas.
Just a thought!!
 
Shivey,

A "disposable" Old Timer multi-blade 1095 carbon steel slipjoint can be had at wal-mart for about $15. This may be suitable for another test.

michael
 
Good idea, Rev. I'll send in the Case and post a new thread when I hear back from them. Not sure where to send the KC...don't really want to ship over the pond.
Sandrat: I don't think I could do that to a new OT, they actually make a sweet work knife. I may turn up something more worthy of the dreaded vinegar bath. I'll let y'all know if/when I do.;)
 
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