Something seems to be amiss.

delander

delander

Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
567
E Bay item #170086468590 purports to be S/N 0001 and supposedly one of the first 10 of the production run.

There is a big difference between the one I have and the one on e bay. Here's the one I have (S/N 109), and not with Stag Handles either:

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What do you think?

Del
 
Hi Del,
That's the second knife I've seen him list as stag when it's really staglon, and his shield is just a blank coin. Probably just a salesman's sample along with most of his other knives (although I did like that Jack Daniels knife). I think most of his stuff sells way too high due to the over hype. He had an (exlusive) 50th anniversary knife that was a stag 5OT a couple of weeks ago. The fact that they had a 5OT in 1954 is news to me, or a 50th ann. knife for that matter. I think he was just trying to mislead people into thinking that 5OT was really something like 50th. Here's the link - 170084088786. his stuff is probably autthentic back room stock but he does take liberty with his dramatic descriptions, reminds me of a car salesman.
Eric
 
I don't think the example on e-bay has stag handles, they look very much like delrin/staglon to me, often it seems some folk think that the handles which the trained eye knows are delrin/staglon are convinced that they are real stag, also the image of the CG on the on your model as opposed to the one one e-bay is not complete.

Rusty1
 
It is interesting that he chose a 5OT, a lockback, for a knife supposedly produced in the 1950s.

Codger may know when the mechanism for the lockback was patented, but I do not recall seeing any lockbacks from that time frame.

Does anyone know when they started making lockback knives with the locking mechanism on the 5OT?

Dale
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...earch.dll?from=R40&satitle=170086468590&fvi=1

I don't know what's up with that eBay shield either. It's been removed, it's upside down, or perhaps it's a blank. The factory collection certificate says "prototype", so perhaps Schrade didn't have the shields ready yet when that first knife was made?

--------------------------------
The stampede definitely looks like plasti-stag, but this one looks like real stag:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...earch.dll?from=R40&satitle=170084088786&fvi=1
I don't know why he thinks it's a 50th anniversary knife though. Just because it says on the "certificate of authenticity"? Because of the red bag? It obviously is a very nice prototype, perhaps one-of-a-kind. But based on the model number and tang stamp style, it couldn't have been made in 1954.

The "certificate of authenticity" simply means the knife was from the Schrade warehouse; it doesn't mean "And finally was the Certificate of Authenticity that was to be completed and given to the HONORED RECEIPENT!!!" Unless there's another certificate not shown in the auction photos.

One possible origin of that stag 5OT, there was a Harley Davidson two-knife set that included a plasti-stag 5OT. Maybe this is the prototype knife from that set?

-Bob
 
The first date the 5OT appeared in a Schrade catalog was 1987.
The 5UH appears in the 2003 & 2004 catalogs.

My concern is about the locking mechanism of the knife. I do not recall any lockback type knives in the 1950s. I think Schrade's first lockback was the LB7 & 7OT. Both appeared in the 1979 catalogs. I could be wrong, but I don't think they made any lockback before then. Liner locks, yes, but not lockbacks. If anyone has different please let me know.

My whole point is he is listing a knife that was supposedly made in 1954, but the locking mechanism of the knife was not in use by Schrade until 25 years later! Ergo, it could not be a 50th anniversary knife, if I am right.

Codger,
please give us your input on this. I do not recall a lockback prior to 1979, do you?

Thanks,
Dale
 
#170086468590 appears to be like yours, Del, with the exception of the missing or blank shield. We may be seeing glue where the shield came off, or a blank dummy shield. Hard to say, but look at the shadows in the closeup. But the knife is Delrin (Staglon) not stag. The second blade etch might well have been deleted for the production after the photosample was made. Such is the life of 'event enhancement' SFOs.

#170084088786 appears to be a photosample as well. Almost all of Schrade's patterns were sampled in burnt stag at one time or another after the embargo lifted and supplies became available. I don't see anything about a '50th anniversary' on that knife though. He doesn't say anniversary of what. Wasn't the Stampede since the first Calgary Stampede was held in 1912, '62 being the 50th? And it wasn't Schrade's 50th. But...they made a lot of event SFO's, so it could be somebody's fiftieth. But without context documents, how do you know? I'd vote for it being a 5OTES sample for Europe. That would be circe 1992. I have a NEW ITEM LISTING sheet from 1991 for a 5OTE with walnut handles. And there were quite a few samples made up for Europe with burnt stag later.

There seems to be a lot of confusion between what is a prototype, and what is a sample. Some sellers play on that to make their wares sound more exotic.

As for what that cert says...well...the paper is too slick to make good toilet paper. And I've seen too many of these signed but blank to believe whatever whoever typed, printed, or fancy caligraphy inked into the blank description line.

It is a nicely stagged knife, and if that floats your boat, buy it, not the hype or cert.

Michael
 
Dale,
I think he knows there was no lockback made in the fifties, just like he knows that Calgary knife isn't stag. I had sent him an email concerning that 5OT and the misleading statements and he conveniently ignored it. It's just that to the uninitiated, the tang looks like it says 50, and he's playing on that. I just don't understand why these guys (and it seems like it's always the ones with the certs.) can't just sell these knives on their own merits without sugar coating them with deception.
Eric
 
The 5OTES was an SFO for Imperial Europe in the spring of 1993. here were 300 ordered. They were to have a 440 STAINLESS blade etch, and be serialized beginning with #0011.


This is a sample, not a prototype, and it isn't just a matter of semantics. There is a difference.

Michael

If / when the photo comes up, you will see that it is the photosample #PS01
 
Check out this one from same seller and price it sold for.
I probably would have bid on a few of his knives except every time Ive seen him sell a LB7 with brass colored bolsters he says that they are GOLD PLATED. Im almost certain that this is not correct, (anyone???).
I had to assume that it was correct without handling it myself and subsequently that was the reason I didnt bid on his knives. Gold plating on bolsters would be next to useless!! Bolsters are very prone to small bumps and scratches and gold plating wears off. Handle is NOT stag either and market value $1500 ????
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170084081080&rd=1&rd=1
 
...that I don't pull this stuff 'outa me arse', here is a copy of the New Product Information Sheet whic accompanied the Photosample copy.


Note that I removed the approval and submission signatures as per my confidentiality agreements with former employees. Otherwise, it is an exact scan.

Michael
 
I'll see what I can find on that Staglon Arkansas DU knife. Is the quarter included?:rolleyes:

Edited in as I get it:
DU8 pattern from circa 1996 (pattern, not necissarily this knife)
Duck Head Antique Brass Shield #12193
 
http://www.hunt101.com/img/478567.JPG
Click to expand...
I don't think this knife could be the same as the auction item. This photo shows a "SCHRADE+" tang stamp; the tang stamp in the auction photo is older.

This is a sample, not a prototype, and it isn't just a matter of semantics. There is a difference.
Click to expand...
I think the seller got the Prototype idea from the factory collection certificate. It's obvious that the guys cleaning out the Factory Collection didn't take the time to completely research each item before sale. It would have taken years, access to documents, and cooperation from a long-time factory insider.

Check out this one from same seller and price it sold for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170084081080&rd=1&rd=1
Click to expand...
That's a nice stag knife. Don't know why he thinks it's gold though - the certificate doesn't say that. Looks like extra-polished brass to me. I'd pay $50.00 for it...

-Bob
 
That's a nice stag knife. Don't know why he thinks it's gold though - the certificate doesn't say that. Looks like extra-polished brass to me. I'd pay $50.00 for it...
Click to expand...

Bob, if thats stag Ill have to eat my shoes??????
Looks identical to typical LB8 delrin???
 
I think you're right about the "stag".

781c_1.JPG


Comparing my "COA" to his, and I'm concerned his may be phoney and/or retouched. First off, the typing print on his is very small, smaller than the stock printing ("The Entire Factory Collection...") on the certificate. On my certificate, the typed print is larger than the standard print on the COA.

Signatures are the proper handwriting, and the foil sticker couldn't be duplicated by a printer. But loud alarms are blaring at the second line of the typed information - something has been covered up/photoshopped. Perhaps the word "Artificial," as in "Artificial India Stag." Could be it's something masked on the certificate itself, or something masked for the eBay photo.

-Bob
 
Where did he get the market price at? Surely he'd put a higher reserve on a $1500 market price knife. This auction smells and it ain't the roses.......
 
Bob thanks for your sharp eye it looks fraudulent and deliberatley deceptive. And what is the buyer going to think when he gets his certificate!!!!!!
 
Tim, The identical DU LB8 with Staglon scales is in that photo of the LB8's I sent you. I paid about $70, as I recall. I'm practising etching 000 on all my Schrades..looks good. Hoo Roo
 
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