Something to think about in a folder for the troops

[STR]

I wanted to suggest this and/or get some other thoughts on it since it is on my mind.

A thread came up the other day on another forum here that caused me to get out one of my old faves that I used to carry quite a bit before the days of the convenient one hand openers and pocket clips. Once I got it out and held it again I suddenly remembered why I loved this knife so much.

It just fits the hand and feels so good in the hand that you can't help but want to use it and carry it. In truth I probably still would have carried it only it didn't have the features I wanted in my EDC anymore once more modern one hand 'clipit' knives started coming out.

But that wasn't the only thing that happened to give me this idea. Since I last had it out I've come a long way in my abilities to make and modify knives and in my confidence also. So I did some minor surgery. I put a thumb stud on it to bring it up to date with the times, and I made a titanium pocket clip and put that on it also after drilling and threading the handle scales and metal liner to get a secure mounting. It works great and for the first time in nearly 20 years or so I have this old friend out and using it again.

Then the thought occurred to me to suggest this idea of mine to some of the knife manufacturers.

So Sal, listen up please and forgive my long winded posting. I hope it is worth the read.

My son, Brandon just got back from Iraq in March of 05 after spending 14 months over there. Needless to say his 'Old Man' made sure he had good knives with him among other things. While there his main everyday users were his multi tool and his EDC folder.

His main complaint was the sand and grit getting into them and messing things up all the time and I mean day in and day out. In fact he said the sand got into everything: eyes, crotch, shoes, pockets, and his knives and guns. On his folders it wouldn't have been so bad if they had been easier to get into to clean up and didn't require being taken apart with tools to do that.

Here is a question for you: How many pivot screws and handle screws off a folder do you think a guy can lose in a years time in the desert? Anyone? I'll give you a clue. Lots. I know some of you think the guys stationed over there don't have a lot of time but the truth is some do. Brandon was on convoy duty: worked one day, had the next off to clean and maintain equipment. This was the routine everyday for nearly the entire time there.

Case had the right idea here with the knife I'm posting pics of below. It has always been one of my favorite users and not just from Case but from any manufacturer. I rate it up there in the top five of my all time favorite EDC knives. Case called this the "click N clean". It doesn't just pop apart by itself and the mechanism is not what I'd call cheesy.

This knife is anything but flimsy. You have to make it come open with a good shove to unsnap the handle so you can access the insides so that part can be done right and done well. The fact is this is a great field knife that I have washed out in nearby streams on more than one occassion after field dressing small game animals and getting it pretty messy. I could see this design or an improved version of it going hand in hand with some of the H1 steel to be honest with you.

Add an ambi thumb stud and a pocket clip (multi mount), a black or olive drab/desert tan non reflective blade, a desert tan or olive drab camo handle scale in G10 and you suddenly have a wonderful tactical field knife that doesn't require tools or lost pivot screws to clean up in the desert or jungle.

Case called this the Blackhorn 3.5 #2104L and they have discontinued it. Can you believe that?

I think if the guys come home from Iraq and the number one complaint about their folders and other things with moving parts over there is the above complaints regarding sand and grit that the ideas are out there to help make life easier for them. With the advent of the new H1 steel this design or a slightly modified one like it could really be a great addition to a future model.

It is my opinion that someone should start making a knife similar to this one again only forget the hunter orange color unless you still want to have an optional hunter model. Go with a subdued color for the troops and you have a real winner here. Incorporate an easy clean mechanism so the handle doesn't have to be taken off and screws don't have to be taken out with tools to get to the insides and you have an award winning tactical folder. Since Case is obviously not interested in making this model anymore doesn't it seem appropriate that someone else should maybe buy the design or at least license it to start their own version of it?

I believe Spyderco could do this and still make it affordable to the average soldier. I have suggested this to Case as well but I'm sure if they do it that it will have a hefty price tag. Besides that, things could be made better. It could be 'beefier' and larger all around for a tactical knife for the troops. The steel in the blade could be better of course. I suspect this Case blade is 420HC or 440A. Because of it's age it may be 440C but I don't know.

Finally, the lock for another thing is sub par compared to a modern Spyderco in how shallow the lock bar falls into the blade. That could certainly be improved on by Spyderco if they did one, and a mid lock with the Boye detent would make it nicer still by making it a little easier to close one handed and a harder to close accidentally when white knuckling it.

What do you guys think?

 

[Mr Blonde]

That looks like a great idea! I'd love to see Sal's input on this.

Wouter

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi STR.

I'm glad Brandon is home safely. My wife Gail communicates regularly with troops in the Middle East because of our OIF program. We feel for every one of our soldiers in the sand box.

Thanx for the input on the "take apart" concept. We'll look into it.

Do you know when Case made their "Click & Clean?"

sal

 

[s0rce]

I'm not a soldier but I would love an easily cleanable knife, (seeing as I started the thread about easy to clean knives for working with concrete).

Hope you can put something together Sal!

-Lyle

 

[blade man]

I don't know that I personally would be interested in one, but I have to say that that would be a great idea. I would imagine it'd go well with the troops, as well as people working in dusty, dirty environments. Construction workers, say. Nice idea, STR!

 

[Roefisher]

Not often I say it, but that's a fantastic fresh idea

I can't help but think that a knife of this style would be a superb EDC....especially, as blade man says, for people in a dusty/dirty environment. Bound to be a good seller......but which model would you pick ?

Let's hope we do see something downstream on this very subject....I'll be keeping an eye out for it !

Well done, STR.

 

[STR]

Thanks guys.

Hi Sal.

As I recall going from memory of something I read on the Case forum some time ago, that knife was made from 1980 to 1992 when it was discontinued.

Don't hold me to that as I may have erred plus or minus a few years but I think that is correct or close anyway. The stampings used on the blade also confirm it is an 80s to early 90s knife also. Hope that helps.

 

[STR]

Also, according to Bernard Levine's knife guide this Blackhorn 3.5 #2104L Case is a modified version of even earlier 'easy clean' type folders also made by Case in the past.

You can see here on the cover of the 5th edition one such example.

 

[s0rce]

Not often I say it, but that's a fantastic fresh idea

I can't help but think that a knife of this style would be a superb EDC....especially, as blade man says, for people in a dusty/dirty environment. Bound to be a good seller......but which model would you pick ?

Let's hope we do see something downstream on this very subject....I'll be keeping an eye out for it !

Well done, STR.

A delica would be perfect, maybe even in H1.

 

[STR]

I learned this morning from another Case knut that they also made a "4.2 Click N Clean" that was probably more along the lines I was thinking of size wise for a 'tactical' folder. I am trying to obtain a pic of one of these knives if possible.

Actually I wouldn't mind finding one for sale but that may be next to impossible.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Too bad so many people are prejudiced against balisongs. Balis are the ultimate in practically self-cleaning knives. With a skeletal frame like the Spyderfly, there aren't many places dirt can hide.

 

[J85909266]

Too bad so many people are prejudiced against balisongs. Balis are the ultimate in practically self-cleaning knives. With a skeletal frame like the Spyderfly, there aren't many places dirt can hide.

Too bad so many people would cut themselves trying to play with them. I'm sure I would.

 

[STR]

I always found those intriquing Esav but they seemed to me to be a distraction or 'play toy' that someone always has to open and close all the time. Kind of like the Ken Onion assisted openers in that you can't just carry it, you have to play with it.. Brandon, my son has several of those Balis and he is quite good with them actually but none of them were ones he took with him to Iraq.

Not sure why they weren't considered. Maybe they would be knowing what he knows now if he gets called back up to go again. They are nice and open for easy access.

Steve

 

[MrMojoRising]

If Sal would like a Case Blackhorn for T&E purposes I would be happy to trade him mine for nice new black blade Native!

 

[Vorpal Blade]

I have been looking at this thread and would like to add one more voice of support. The old Case design was outstanding but would need to be revamped as STR described.

The concept of a folder which can be disassambled and reassembled, for cleaning without tools, is the same as for military small arms like the Beretta pistol. (When I was in the Army, the same was true of the M14 and Colt .45ACP). An additional advantage would be, interchangeable blades and handles.

While it is true, the balisong is less prone to gather debris around its pivot pins, than most other designs, it normally has a narrower blade than usual.....IMHO, a wide blade with a high, flat grind is more useful in a military folder which may see lots of expedient misuse and/or severe oversharpening. If a balisong were made with a blade about 1 inch or more wide, with its metal handles, one would imagine a rather bulky, heavy folder.

I think, any company in the forefront of innovative designs, like Spyderco, might realise a windfall by reproducing a modern update of the old Case design.
Just wanted to add my two cents.

 

[Vorpal Blade]

If a balisong were made with a blade about 1 inch or more wide, with its metal handles, one would imagine a rather bulky, heavy folder.

Since the above was written, I have revised my opinion. I have visited websites, done searches and have concluded that relatively lightweight balisongs can easily be made with flat handles and wide, thin blades, gradually tapering from the spine. In other words, they can be made chiefly for utility and easy carry, instead of mainly for flipping and combat. Whether you favor, say, a drop point with deep belly or a Wharncliffe type blade for general utility use, the balisong design can be gracefully adapted.

As noted, balisongs can be cleaned much more easily, at the pivot points, without disassembly and, IMO, have the strongest lockup, if made right, than any other folder design.

I think Esav is right "Balis are the ultimate in practically self-cleaning knives". But their reputation seems to relegate them, mainly, to a specialized niche in the world of folders.

 

[Dijos]

Not to sound stupid, but a compression lock with an open backspacer couldn't be much easier to clean as it is. I also agree with thhe bali comments by Esav. Now, for a hunter, you may be on to something.