Something's wrong, but I don't know what...

G

Gautier

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Aug 31, 2006
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Sharpening a little Case Peanut in CV today, I had a hell of a time trying to get a decent edge with my stones. Now, the stones aren't fancy or a high dollar(Smith's Tri Hone Arkansas, and a black hard Arkansas pocket stone) but I've never had a problem with getting an edge with them before. Cleaned them and took a break to think about what I might be doing differently than usual, still no dice.

So, I went and dug through my outdoors gear, grabbed my little Fallkniven DC3 that was attached to my sheath. Less than 2 minutes, and I'm whittling hair, as per usual. This, and the fact that I've been sharpening freehand since I was knee high to a grasshopper leads me to believe it's not my technique, and it obviously wasn't the steel, so...:confused:

All that said, could it just be that my stones have been used so much they're worn out and don't have as much bite as they used to? I've only had the Smith's for a few years, so it doesn't seem logical. Besides the fact that with proper technique you can get a shaving edge with a brick or cinder block, so I'm really stumped here. Any suggestions, ideas? Should I just invest in better stones?


Sincerely confused, Gautier
 
With very small blades, like that on the Peanut, I've had much better luck with a Medium/Fine ceramic stone. I've tried using coarser stones, but the blade is already so thin, it's more challenging (for me) to do it without removing too much metal. Since the working edge on a tiny blade is going to be very narrow (bevel) and thin, for me it's easier to 'sneak up' on it with a less abrasive stone, then strop it.
 
What did the edge on the Case feel like?

It'd be difficult to say what it may have been, especially since you said that you got the Fallkniven whittling sharp on the same stones. I wouldn't say it were the quality of stones, but maybe the stones weren't fine/smooth enough to such a small edge of metal, coarse stones may have not been able to get the edge as keen without just removing the edge you've just established.

(nice weather we're having today, right?)
 
After the Arkansas stones it was somewhat sharp, but barely shaving arm hair. I didn't sharpen a Fallkniven knife though, I used a Fallkniven sharpening stone on the Case. The DC-3 Diamond/ceramic synthetic stone, advertised at 25 microns. Not sure what particle size/mesh/grit the Arkansas stones would be, but they're noticably larger when examining them under a 16x jeweler's loupe.


As for the weather, it's great :thumbup: Sure beats the 110-120temps we were seeing earlier this week on the river.

Edited to add: Just tried the same thing with a Victorinox Spartan, and while it got sharp on the Arkansas stones(shaving with light to moderate pressure) it got sharper after switching to the DC-3 stone, shaving arm hair above the skin. To prove to myself I wasn't just leaving a burr that would shave, I went out in the back and grabbed a spare pressure treated, hard 2X4 and whittled on it for a bit and it was still shaving reasonably well.

Maybe I've just gotten pickier about my edges, maybe I didn't clean the stones well enough, or maybe I need new stones. Those are the only three things I can come up with. Any other ideas?
 
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That sounds kinda like a problem I have had in the past with the Case cv steel. I used a DMT diafold and I never got my trapper that sharp. I mean never. Every other knife I used the Dmt would get as sharp as you could ask a fine stone to get. I use either a smith's diamond stone or oilstone to sharpen that case still do to this day.That will change when I get my new waterstones I hope. I dont know why I think it was something personal betwwen that sharpener and knife.:eek: I have owned 2 of the same DMT and only had a problem with the last one. The first one was lost in moving miss it though. I gave up on useing that DMT might have been the coarseness of the newer diamonds. I never had a problem with the first one even when it was brand new though. I always thought it was quite funny. I have sharpened that case on DMT, Smith's oilstone and diamond stones, Norton oilstones, sandpaper,a solid block of carbide,Lansky,3 dollar fleamarket stone and well they all work but the DMT I have. I can get it sharp with the DMT but not without a leather belt. It still was not that great after the leather belt.Maybe you should try my DMT and see if was just a beef with My knife.:D
 
Seroiusly try a differnet stone it might just be the combo of the two the knife and the stone. Has anyone else seen this where one stone refuse to sharpen a paticular knife but other are just fine and vise versa? I feel your pain as i have been there to however you will love the cv if you find a sharpener that works. how much pressure or you using? I only use the wieght of my knife if that much to sharpen my Trapper in cv, less than all the rest it just seems to be the trick on anything but that dang DMT
 
Still not sure what the deal was with the Arkansas stones, think I'm going to just invest in some better sharpening equipment. The CV is indeed good steel, no complaints about that, or this knife since it's not the first time I've sharpened it. As for pressure, starting out I'll go with light pressure, maybe the weigh of my forefinger on the blade, and gradually decrease pressure until not even the weight of the knife is being put on the stone.

Guess my stones are just starting to get worn or dished or something. :confused: I appreciate the responses and ideas, I still think it's weird.


Gautier
 
Gautier said:
Still not sure what the deal was with the Arkansas stones, think I'm going to just invest in some better sharpening equipment. The CV is indeed good steel, no complaints about that, or this knife since it's not the first time I've sharpened it. As for pressure, starting out I'll go with light pressure, maybe the weigh of my forefinger on the blade, and gradually decrease pressure until not even the weight of the knife is being put on the stone.

Guess my stones are just starting to get worn or dished or something. :confused: I appreciate the responses and ideas, I still think it's weird.


Gautier
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Your experiences with your 'Arkansas' stones seem to somewhat mirror what I went through with similar stones years ago. I haven't used Arkansas stones or oilstones for many years, and reading this thread sort of reminded me why I gave up on them.

Based on what I've read in recent years about natural stones, there's a HUGE variation in quality of the stone itself, especially when you're dealing with the 'inexpensive' ones. Originally, I think the best stones were only found & extracted from very localized areas and, over the years, the best quality stones have largely been mined out. If you can still find the 'best' ones, they'll be priced accordingly ($$$). The stones I bought were also 'inexpensive' (if not just CHEAP), and they performed like it. I always had the sense that the stones felt too 'slick' on a knife blade, in spite of how gritty they might've felt under my fingertip. They just didn't seem to do a good job of removing much metal, especially on harder, more wear-resistant steels. Sort of felt like I was trying to sharpen my blade on millions of teeny-tiny 'marbles'. Just felt too smooth, with no discernible 'bite'.

The other thing I didn't like about natural stones, they were more difficult to keep clean. They seemed to clog more easily, and the problem was only worse if I used them with oil. Over time, it seems like the oil just made them that much 'slicker'.

This is why I started using ceramic. It's MUCH harder than any steel, much more consistent in it's performance and, the best thing of all, it's a breeze to keep clean. And, for all intents and purposes, it'll NEVER wear out (unless you break it). And, in my experience, they perform best when used DRY. No need for messy oil.
 
I may be making the move to ceramics or diamonds myself. I've used natural stones all my life and never had a problem, but if they are as consistent and uniform as everyone seems to rave about, and with such a variety, I may give 'em a shot. Any recommendations? Doesn't have to be the latest and greatest, let's say a $100 limit. Thanks again


Gautier
 
Gautier said:
I may be making the move to ceramics or diamonds myself. I've used natural stones all my life and never had a problem, but if they are as consistent and uniform as everyone seems to rave about, and with such a variety, I may give 'em a shot. Any recommendations? Doesn't have to be the latest and greatest, let's say a $100 limit. Thanks again


Gautier
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Spyderco does ceramics about as good as (or better than) anyone. I've been using a Spyderco 'Double Stuff' pocket stone (Medium/Fine). They also make ceramic Med/Fine/UF bench stones (8" x 2"), files, etc. You could get at least 2 of the bench stones within, or near to, your $100 budget. They run around $40 - $55 apiece (that's street price; the UF is at the high end of that range). The 'Double Stuff' pocket stone can be had at around $28.

I'm kind of curious about the Fallkniven DC3/4 stones. The combo of diamond on one side w/ceramic on the other sounds intriguing to me.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to look into the Spyderco ceramics. As for the Fallkniven DC-3, it's by far my favorite pocket stone out of the 3 or 4 I have, does a great job of touch ups in the field in a short amount of time. I believe I only paid about 16 or 17 dollars for it too.



Gautier
 
Gautier said:
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to look into the Spyderco ceramics. As for the Fallkniven DC-3, it's by far my favorite pocket stone out of the 3 or 4 I have, does a great job of touch ups in the field in a short amount of time. I believe I only paid about 16 or 17 dollars for it too.



Gautier
Click to expand...

If you do decide on the Spyderco ceramic bench stones, and still feel like you'll only buy 1 or 2, I'd prioritize the Medium 1st (I use that side of my Double Stuff probably 90% of the time), then the Fine stone 2nd. Any refinement or additional polishing you'd need beyond that could be accomplished with a strop & compound.

Good luck. :thumbup:
 
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