(Sometimes) Sticky Framelock

THG

Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
3,644
I just got a framelock knife, and the lockup functions completely randomly. It definitely works; I'm not afraid of it collapsing on me or anything like that. The thing is that sometimes it's REALLY hard to disengage, and other times it's easy. And it's completely random. If I give it a hard flick to open it, it might be hard to disengage, or it might be easy. Same with if I gently open it: sometimes it'll be REALLY hard to disengage, and other times it will be easy.

Will this go away as I break in the knife?
 
I put a dab of miltec on the lockbar and wipe it dry. Works fine for me!
 
I tried the pencil trick on my Sage 2 and my Leafstorm - It worked really well. I've heard that the lock will break in after a couple hundred cycles though.
 
Greetings THG: If the frame lock is titanium, an inconsistent or sticky lock bar is sometimes caused by galling. Unless the lock bar face is surface hardened, any tiny high spots on the softer titanium will gall against the harder steel of the blade tang mating surface. This creates a "microweld" which can cause erratic swings in the effort needed to unlock the knife.

Definition of Galling: A condition whereby excessive friction between high spots results in localized welding with subsequent splitting and a further roughening of rubbing surfaces of one or both of two mating parts.

Both the pencil and the miltec suggested by Monger and Myowngood will work.
A lubricant can temporarily relieve the condition by separating the two metal surfaces with a thin surface film or reducing the friction which causes the welding. When the lube wears off the condition often returns.
If this is the cause of the sticky lock bar. The pencil "lead' which is actually a compressed mixture of fine clay and graphite will help. The graphite lubes the surfaces while the clay acts as a fine abrasive. One keeps it from sticking while the other smoothes out the high spots which created the friction welding problem. Once the surfaces become smooth the condition should be corrected.Other things work faster and better but the lube or pencil lead will do. It will just take a few applications. Improper lock bar to blade tang mating surface angles can also cause the problem. Forceful "flicking" can also initially produce the same effect. From my limited experience, if the lock bar is titanium, galling is a likely cause. OldDude1
 
A sharpy will also do the trick.I used it on the lock of a Harsey custom that took a pair of pliers to release. It has worked fine ever since.
Gary
 
Greetings THG: If the frame lock is titanium, an inconsistent or sticky lock bar is sometimes caused by galling. Unless the lock bar face is surface hardened, any tiny high spots on the softer titanium will gall against the harder steel of the blade tang mating surface. This creates a "microweld" which can cause erratic swings in the effort needed to unlock the knife.

Definition of Galling: A condition whereby excessive friction between high spots results in localized welding with subsequent splitting and a further roughening of rubbing surfaces of one or both of two mating parts.

Both the pencil and the miltec suggested by Monger and Myowngood will work.
A lubricant can temporarily relieve the condition by separating the two metal surfaces with a thin surface film or reducing the friction which causes the welding. When the lube wears off the condition often returns.
If this is the cause of the sticky lock bar. The pencil "lead' which is actually a compressed mixture of fine clay and graphite will help. The graphite lubes the surfaces while the clay acts as a fine abrasive. One keeps it from sticking while the other smoothes out the high spots which created the friction welding problem. Once the surfaces become smooth the condition should be corrected.Other things work faster and better but the lube or pencil lead will do. It will just take a few applications. Improper lock bar to blade tang mating surface angles can also cause the problem. Forceful "flicking" can also initially produce the same effect. From my limited experience, if the lock bar is titanium, galling is a likely cause. OldDude1

It is a Ti framelock. I wanted metal handles, and I would have like SS, but this one only came in Ti... Definitely a bad first experience. I hope the pencil lead will help.
 
pencil lead/graphite are only temporary solutions. I have often sent it back to the maker and gotten it fixed. On Emersons I have to cycle about 1000 or so times, then it becomes real smooth. Some people actually like the stickiness, but I don't.
 
Sharpie on the tang where the lock contacts the blade. This type of thing just happens with Ti locks sometimes. Sharpie on the tang until it's broken in. Don't let this be a bad experience for you. Some of my favorite and best Ti framelocks stuck like a bastard when I first got them, but a little Sharpie and some break in time works everything out.
 
I second the sharpie trick....something that RJ Martin reccommends doing..

I think da man knows what he's talkin bout. I tried the sharpie too but my

sharpie was too big.
 
Well if graphite didn't do much, are you sure a sharpie is going to help?

What's been working so far is pushing in the lock with my thumb (I can hear it creak like a door, or a frog croaking; that's what the stiffness sounds like), unlocking it, then pushing it again... etc.

The only problem is that my fingers are raw as hell, now.
 
Well if graphite didn't do much, are you sure a sharpie is going to help?

What's been working so far is pushing in the lock with my thumb (I can hear it creak like a door, or a frog croaking; that's what the stiffness sounds like), unlocking it, then pushing it again... etc.

The only problem is that my fingers are raw as hell, now.

What knife is it that you have if you don't mind me asking?
 
Have it carbidized!
 
Sharpie will help. I also find that when I have a Ti lock that sticks it is sometimes easier to release the lock with my forefinger by wedging it between the two slabs and pulling. Almost like pulling a trigger. Definitely give the sharpie a shot. Just let it dry a little before opening. The problem with graphite is that it's a powder so it will eventually just fall away. If you sharpie the area of the tang where the lock contacts and let it dry it will work. I trust the advice of RJ Martin. I've followed this advice with every sticky framelock I've had and it's never let me down.

I too would like to know which knife you are having a problem with. I don't think you'll be doing any injustice to any knife or maker by telling. Sticky Ti locks are a common problem.

Have it carbidized!

CM, I'm pretty sure all this does is increase surface roughness to make it much more difficult for a lock to slip out of place during use. It sounds like it would cause even more of a problem in this case.
 
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The first mistake that many unknowingly make is to forcefully release the lockbar. This only causes more problems as you are "sheering" the two surfaces causing deformation of the surfaces.

When the lock becomes stuck place the knifes edge on a cutting board, while holding the handle use your free hand to apply downward pressure in the stop pin/pivot area. This will on a very small scale create a gap between the lock bar and lock face allowing you to easily release the lock. Again go not pry the lock, it can induce further wear and only make the problem worse.

A loose pivot causing side to side play when the blade is open can also cause a sticky lock and excessive lock wear. Even small amounts of play can do it, check by holding the knife open and liner facing up, move the blade side to side and if your lock bar moves you need adjustment. When looking at the knife/lock from this possition you can also check the fit. The contact point of the lock bar should be the upper right corner of the bar and only about 1/16in square of that corner makes actual contact.

Too much oil, too much pivot oil spilling over onto the locking surfaces can also cause a sticky lock. Those that use oil to fix a sticky lock I don't know how your doing it.......

The pencil trick works and seems to last if not completely fix the problem on most. If its really bad ask for a replacement as it will never get better, also if you pryed it too hard it caused damage that will continue to cause problems.

If you must, take the knife apart and clean the face of the lock bar, I have had to do this before.

Some of the best frame locks like XM18, ZT0300, CRK, all have top notch fit and function. My personal experience with the ZT made me realize what a really well made and fitted frame lock should be like. Not only was it assisted but I put it through some good use and hard openings that would have froze a normal lock. When I sold it over a year later the lock had moved less than a 1/16in and was still as smooth as the day I got it.

Keep the lock surfaces clean, use the pencil trick, and check for play. If its not working better after that and break-in (about 200 cycles) then it might not get better.

One more very important thing to remember, during break-in open the knife easy. This is usually were most problems start.

OldDude1, excellent post!
 
I have a large regular Sebenza that does this. Is it possible for me to re-heattreat the lock? I seen the guy on the CRK DVD do it and it looks pretty straightforward. Just use a torch and turn the lockbar face red then let it cool. Looks simplistic. Anyone know the ins and outs of this. I have access to the proper tools. Just looking for a little encouragement. Thanks.
 
Olddude1 said:
The graphite lubes the surfaces while the clay acts as a fine abrasive. One keeps it from sticking while the other smoothes out the high spots which created the friction welding problem. Once the surfaces become smooth the condition should be corrected.Other things work faster and better but the lube or pencil lead will do.

What are those other things that will work faster and better? I've been using pencil lead since I bought my first Ti frame/liner lock and it has reduced friction enough so that the first few hundred cycles are managable and then after that everything settles in. It works just fine for me, but if theres something that does it better...?

Well if graphite didn't do much, are you sure a sharpie is going to help?

What's been working so far is pushing in the lock with my thumb (I can hear it creak like a door, or a frog croaking; that's what the stiffness sounds like), unlocking it, then pushing it again... etc.

The only problem is that my fingers are raw as hell, now.

I hope you don't mean that you open the knife and then after the framelock moves into position you push it further over to the opposite liner and then open it again? Thats what it sounded like to me, of course I might be way off. If this is the case though, please stop that immediately and never even think about doing that again!:eek: Thats the worse possible thing you can do to a framelock (especially Ti), as it will cause deformations on the lock bar face and can negatively effect your lockup and severly speed up lock wear so that it locks up closer and closer to the opposite liner.
 
What knife is it that you have if you don't mind me asking?

It's a Ti JYD II blem. I hesitated saying it so that everyone didn't just say, "Yeah, that's because it's a blem." But yeah, this might have been why it was a blem lol

It seems to be doing a little bit better now with the push-in/disengage cycling along with the graphite.

Thanks, guys.
 
It's a Ti JYD II blem. I hesitated saying it so that everyone didn't just say, "Yeah, that's because it's a blem." But yeah, this might have been why it was a blem lol

It seems to be doing a little bit better now with the push-in/disengage cycling along with the graphite.

Thanks, guys.

Mine did too. I had to use a screwdriver to pry the lockbar loose. I wish I'd have known what knifenut1013 said. I slammed that baby really hard when it was NIB. Then I drenched it in oil and kept slamming it. It just got worse.

The dealer offered me a new one, but I thought "heck with it" & took it apart and slightly bent (decreased the lock-up timing) making it work alright and sold it on fleabay. No bad feedback so it worked out for the best. Everyone got what they wanted.
 
It's a Ti JYD II blem. I hesitated saying it so that everyone didn't just say, "Yeah, that's because it's a blem." But yeah, this might have been why it was a blem lol

It seems to be doing a little bit better now with the push-in/disengage cycling along with the graphite.

Thanks, guys.

Those are actually cool knives, I have one myself. Their is probably a microscopic scratch on the blade that makes it a blem;)
It will take a little time, but the graphite will help, play around with it while watching TV. If you have the graphite powder (door lock dry lube) that works good too.
Mine did too. I had to use a screwdriver to pry the lockbar loose. I wish I'd have known what knifenut1013 said. I slammed that baby really hard when it was NIB. Then I drenched it in oil and kept slamming it. It just got worse.

The dealer offered me a new one, but I thought "heck with it" & took it apart and slightly bent (decreased the lock-up timing) making it work alright and sold it on fleabay. No bad feedback so it worked out for the best. Everyone got what they wanted.

That fell under the "Gently Used" catagory did it? LOL!
 
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