Somewhat Dissapointed

[Badzilla83]

Am I the only one that feels that Swamp Rat is turning into a circus not unlike that "other" knife company.
Don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of the company and my well used Camp Tramp. But the original intent of the company was to make a more affordable, easier to get alternative to Busse. It seems that they are getting into a bad habit of special runs and extremely long wait times that are in contrast to the original purpose.
It seems to me that the old product line should not have been discontinued until the new one was ready for sale. This is another bad habit that seems to be a favorite of Busse.
We were promised a Tac line well over a year ago and to date only one was put into regular production. I sure would like to have the 5" model but I wasn't interested in the desert color or having to fight over the "overrun" offered by the company store. Same story with the Ratstiff (sorry it's just a better name).
What really made me want to throw my hands up was the Battle Guard. Here we have knife that the consensus was that few people were interested in, because the knife was quite frankly, ugly and of limited usefulness. Instead they could have offered at the very least, a run of Battle Rats with tan handles and black blades that would have been much more appealing. Instead they went with a goofy double guard that was a clear ploy to offer an oddity that would have a high resale value. I see this as steering into the same dangerous territory as the "other" company. I argue that most Busse private purchases spend their whole lives in safes are merely collected like baseball cards. This is supposed to be exactly what Swamp Rat is supposed to fight against.
Just some thoughts. Let the flames commence.

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

from your post history you appear to be a troll. So you got tired of poking Randall collectors with a stick, and come here to do the same? I won't waste my time writing a long response.

You are directly and repeatedly insulting Busse and Swamp Rat, and whining. go troll elsewhere.:thumbdn:

 

[Badzilla83]

Actually there wasn't a single insult contained in that post. Criticism and insults are not interchangeble.
As far as my post history that has no bearing whatsoever on my ability to offer an opinion. I post when I feel I have something to say. I think that being a repeat patron to both companies is enough praise.
The very idea that you don't seem to be able to handle someone saying something less than glowing about SWRK would suggest some far deeper issue.

 

[Eric Isaacson]

Badzilla,
Welcome to the Swamp Rat Forum, I'm glad that you stopped by.

While the Swamp Rat line was introduced to be a high performance affordable alternative to the Busse line, no one ever said it would be easily attainable.

We would like to eliminate the long waits that currently exist with the Swamp Rat line, but one of the reasons for this long wait is because they are the highest performance knife that can be had for such a low price.

We are also a business and we must run our operation like a business. While this might not please all of our customers I think it will please them more to have it run like a business and stay open, instead of run like some customers want it run and go out of business.

There are major changes occuring with the production, sale and distribution of the Swamp Rat line and it will eliminate many of your complaints.

Your assumptions about the Battle Guard must also be wrong since I sure received quite a few orders for it.

I hope you stick around and join in our discussions, I think you have some good ideas.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It seems to me that the old product line should not have been discontinued until the new one was ready for sale.

This would mean producing both at the same time, ideal yes, but problematic especially since the switch is significant. Busse in general tends to make massive changes to the knives, just look at the SHBM, BM-E and F-BM. It takes time and resources to make better knives, the difference has to be seen somewhere.

Instead they went with a goofy double guard that was a clear ploy to offer an oddity that would have a high resale value.

No use to me, but double guards in general are popular. I agree in general that there should always be a standard line from a user perspective, especially flagship models, but the problem is lack of ability to generate the volume which is why they switched to focused production.

It is much easier to make a higher volume if you are grinding two knives and now a dozen different variants. Plus as a maker, it is probably a lot more fun and rewarding to develop new models than just grind out the same 12 knives every day.

I argue that most Busse private purchases spend their whole lives in safes are merely collected like baseball cards.

In general most high cost knives are like that, Busse and Swamp Rat less than most because they actually encourage use. Pop over to the Swamp Rat forum and see the user pics with the coatings wore off from use, now see how many pictures you can find of a Brend #2 with the same amount of wear.

-Cliff

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Actually there wasn't a single insult contained in that post. Criticism and insults are not interchangeble.
As far as my post history that has no bearing whatsoever on my ability to offer an opinion. I post when I feel I have something to say. I think that being a repeat patron to both companies is enough praise.
The very idea that you don't seem to be able to handle someone saying something less than glowing about SWRK would suggest some far deeper issue.

You know what you said, and if you didn't intend it to be derogatory then I am glad- but you need some improvement in your writing skills if that is the case.

When you post a flame-baiting rant, saying "let the flames commence"- that is a standard trolling technique. Then, when someone calls you on it- coming back with a self-righteous attitude is again, SOP for trolls.

-Calling Busse a circus is an insult.
-calling the Rat Mastiff "Ratstiff" I can only assume that is an insult
-a general accusatory tone.

The bully has shown me the path of kindness and mercy. I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Indeed, I hope I am wrong.

 

[Badzilla83]

Yes, I do know what I said. I have now re-read it and have come to the conclusion it would there is no reason why any should be offended by what I wrote. In the interest of keeping things friendy I will attemp to clarify some things.
Me posting "let the flames comence" is in response to the fact that it seems to happen everytime someone posts an opinion on Bladeforums. One or more people always seem to take it personally, case in point. It was sarcasm.

I feel that as a repeat customer of SWKW I am entitled to voice any constructive or destructive criticism on their public forum. I did not name names or say anything derogatory. Much like the comments I made on the Randall forum I never expected any changes to take place based on my preferences but I have to assume that Mr. Isaacson wants to hear feedback both positive and negative. I sure would if it were my business. I would hardly call my attitude "Self-righteous" but I wouldn't have posted it if I wasn't convicted and ready to defend it. Self-righteousness is not the same as confidence.

Calling Busse a circus is NOT an insult. It has no bearing on their products or those who produce them. Again, no names, nothing derogatory. If Mr. Busse takes offense I would be more than happy to discuss it with him but I'm not sure the offense is yours to take.

I used the term Ratstiff instead of Rat Mastiff because, well, I'm sorry it's a better, less awkward name and that's how I choose to refer to it. Insult? Hardly.

I stand by what I originally said however I will take my own advice and take the suggestions about my writing and approach into consideration. For the record this topic was not intended to start any arguements step on any toes. It was an attempt to open a friendly discussion and I would like to it to stay that way. I will not appologize for what I posted but I do apologize for negative effects.

 

[cleaner145]

What really made me want to throw my hands up was the Battle Guard. Here we have knife that the consensus was that few people were interested in, because the knife was quite frankly, ugly and of limited usefulness.

I assume from this statement you have never been pig hunting. You know when your hands are covered in blood and slicker then snot. Knives without guards have a habit of sliding thru your grip, often with very unfortunate results. Here I get a knife that does everything a BR does and solves this issue as well. As for looks, well I don't think the pigs gonna care much either way.

 

[Badzilla83]

No, I never have but based on what I know about the practice a Battle Rat even with a guard, would not be my first choice.

 

[RokJok]

Am I the only one that feels that Swamp Rat is turning into a circus not unlike that "other" knife company.

Badzilla,
No, you are not the only one.

There are lots of companies that make great products. There are lots of companies that have well-developed (and sometimes over-extended) marketing strategies. But they are not always the same company.

We need to remember that it is possible to be the victim of one's own success. Given the popularity of Jerry/Jennifer's products, I think it applies in this case. How you respond to that kind of success says all there is to say about what sort of company you choose to be.

The crews of Busse/Swamp Rat happen to fall into the crowd of companies who make very good products which they then over-sell to their customer base. Nothing particularly novel about that. Plenty of companies do it. The loyalty of their customers (including me in the case of Busse/Rat) allows them the latitude to indulge in this with impunity. I am not saying it is right or wrong. I am saying it is a reality of how the company has chosen to conduct its business.

 

[Slave To The INFI]

Hey brothers, let's not waste any more time even responding to this. Eric addressed it and that is good enough for me. If you don't like what this dude has to say and you think he is a troll, just add him to your ignore list and wash your hands of him. Calling him out as a troll doesn't do much, if he is, then other folks here know it and they have probably al;ready got him on ignore. Now let's see some freaking user pics, SR or Busse, not all of them sit in a safe.

 

[Slave To The INFI]

I forgot to add, I like the limited offerings. They give you a window into what the guys at the swamp are working on. Nice to see the wheels spin a little. I but you didn't have much to be disappointed in until the old line became unavailable except through after market circles for inflated prices. The consumer drives that market baby, so if they want to pay high prices, then let em. I will just use what i have until something new and readily available comes along. Waiting for Busse and SRKW to come oput with something new is abotu as close as I can get to feeling like a kid at Christmas these days. No complaints here.

 

[Wilco]

The man has valid points, let him say what he wants to say with out being such fanboys about it. I have over 60 Busse knives, and about 10 Swamprats, but the fact that we can never get even near close release dates, drives me nuts. I mean, why even come out with limited runs just for limited runs sakes when you aren't caught up with what you've promised? What about the Folder from Busse? We've been promised it for so long. I can only imagine there are manufacturing/design issues?

I still like Busses, still buy them, but i'm not exclusive to them. They are another tool in the tool box, like Mayo, Perrin, Blackwood, Strider, Drapers, and many other knives I own. It kills me that everyone gets so touchy with valid criticism.

 

[perksy]

Nothing wrong with a little valid criticism.. No one has to agree, but it is only fair for people to voice their opinions.

 

[DrinkMoreBeer]

One of the things I don't care for on BF is as soon as someone is critical about something that someone don't like they band you as a TROLL. Oh no you've been cursed. Bad Boy!!!!


Hey if you don't like my writing skills--tough...

 

[Rat Finkenstein]

Like I said above, I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt.
It was a little suspicious when a new member comes around and starts nearly identical threads on two forums complaining about their companies.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I stated mine, so live with it.

 

[007 Agent ZZero]

Swamp Rat has succeeded in offering the public exactly what they originally intended to. High quality tactical and survival knives at prices that anyone can afford. We are talking $100 for a 4" blade that is handmade and will serve you and your children without fail. Time is the price for this priviledge. I would rather wait and know that my knife is being meticulously worked so that I am completely blown away by its performance. Limited runs come into play for variety, so what if they are collector's items. To me every knife I own is immensely valuable including unique knives that become cornerstone variations of a classic. BTW the Battle Guard is not a petty attempt to proliferate an already legendary knife, it is the attempt of Swamp Rat to offer hunters a little bit of insurance against slicing away tendons and ligaments in thier fingers. Don't insult the image of a company just looking out for the everyday man. I consider these knives to be the choppers of old, bare bones raw performance and nothing else. If they have become popular due to the fact they are amazing knives then take a hint. Order one, get in line, and realize that the best things in life are worth waiting for.

 

[djolney]

Small company + high demand = irreducible complexity.

In order for demand to be met the company would have to grow, and companies that grow often stop behaving in the way that earned them respect and loyalty in the first place.

As long as Jerry and Jennifer keep making excellent tools I’ll continue to accept that the gap between supply and demand causes a certain amount of organized chaos.

 

[leatherman]

Small company + high demand = irreducible complexity.

Irreducible Complexity .......... doesnt that just roll off the toungue?

Although Ratstiff, sounding "cute", just comes across as asinine

 

[shappa]

Irreducible Complexity .......... doesnt that just roll off the toungue?

Although Ratstiff, sounding "cute", just comes across as asinine

Yeah, and Rat Mastiff sounds so much better.
It's a knife, not your firstborn.

Many have voiced displeasure at the lack of ability of the company to even come close to their announced release dates.


Eric Quoted.. "There are major changes occuring with the production, sale and distribution of the Swamp Rat line and it will eliminate many of your complaints."

I truely hope he can improve things.:thumbup: