Southern Grind Bad Monkey

[jstrange]

Hello all,

I know this knife has been talked about and some do not like the blade steel, but I had a good experience and figured I would post about it.

So a couple of weeks ago I sold a broken gun (full disclosure) and got some spending money. Hurrah for me, but what to buy? I am partial to folders and started looking at the above knife. I had one previously, but it wound up going back to who I got it from. I really liked it, but I don't keep stuff that I cant change the pocket-clip for left hand carry, and the brother I got it from really wanted it back.

So, I was looking at their web-site, and said to myself I wish they sold the "waved" blade with the G10 handles. For some reason you can only get the G10 scales with a non-waved blade, and the waved blade with the carbon fiber scales. I had also heard that they will build one for left hand carry, but I didn't see that option on their site. Well, I got a wild hair and sent them a question via email.

I asked if it was possible to get the G10 scales with the waved blade and if it could be drilled and tapped for for left side pocket-clip. Initially she said that they weren't currently making that combination, but that they could make one for lefties. A little later, she came back and said that she had spoken to the production manager and he said that since they were going to special make one with the left hand pocket-clip, they would go ahead and put the waved blade on there for me. Now at this point I hadn't decided to get one yet, but after hearing that I decided to go for it.

So the bottom line was they made me one with the handle scales I specified, they drilled and tapped it for both left hand and right hand carry, and they used the waved blade. Best of all, no extra charge for all that. I thought that was outstanding customer service. I love to support American companies, especially small ones so this was a win-win for me.

It arrived today and I am very happy with it. I am not surprised since I really liked the one I had previously. Fit and finish are great and I think it looks awesome. The lock-up is a bit earlier than I like, but I figure that's better than late. In my experience a Ti liner will move over to where I like it after just a bit of use. The only issue was that it came a bit tight in the pivot. No problem I though, that's why I bought the tool kit too. Unfortunately, like a dumb-ass, I tried to loosen the wrong side and obviously couldn't get it to budge. After looking on there site I saw that you are only supposed to move the pivot side without the monkey. I felt like a real idiot, and being the paranoid person that I am, I started worrying that I ruined the knife. Doesn't look like its harmed at all, but I am still kicking myself

Well, I just wanted to let you guys and gals in on my great experience and say that if you have been on the fence about this knife/company, do yourself a favor and give them a try. I don't think you will be disappointed.

I would post some pics, but I haven't mastered that yet on this forum.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for looking.

 

[Tyronethepro]

I've been intrigued by Southern Grind since I read about them in Blade. I feel like the steel probably isn't worth what I'd be paying for, but I do love the Zac Brown Band. I may just have to pick one up some time, or see if there are any at the stores in town I can try out. I'm glad you're happy with their service and with the knife, that's a surefire way for them to build a great market with repeat customers. :thumbup: And to post pics, just upload your image to Tinypic and then copy and paste the IMG code in your text.

 

[spyderg]

Please post back with updates on the steel performance once you've carried it a while. I've been considering one, the whole lefty thing too, but seems like a lot of people question the steel choice. I looked into it a little and while the steel doesn't seem as bad as some say, the price does seem to be a bit high considering the steel used.

 

[marthinus]

Please post back with updates on the steel performance once you've carried it a while. I've been considering one, the whole lefty thing too, but seems like a lot of people question the steel choice. I looked into it a little and while the steel doesn't seem as bad as some say, the price does seem to be a bit high considering the steel used.

14C28N with a good heat treatment process is a great performing steel. I have it in a few customs and cannot complain, even at 11 degrees inclusive angle I have no issues with chipping. It all comes down to the heat treatment process.

I would be interested to hear how Southern Grind's 14C28N performs.

I have to admit, I have been underwhelmed with Kershaws 14C28N.

 

[Tyronethepro]

14C28N with a good heat treatment process is a great performing steel. I have it in a few customs and cannot complain, even at 11 degrees inclusive angle I have no issues with chipping. It all comes down to the heat treatment process.

I would be interested to hear how Southern Grind's 14C28N performs.

I have to admit, I have been underwhelmed with Kershaws 14C28N.

That's why I'm kind of apprehensive, I didn't like Kershaw's 14C28N at all.

 

[Accelerator]

I had been wondering about this knife for a while. I was intrigued by the build materials and all of the questions about the steel so I picked one up off of the exchange last week. It was advertised as being in excellent condition, but truth be told, it was brand new. The first thing I noticed is the knife is large yet quite light. Fit and finish is very very good. Ergonomics are excellent, the grip fits my XL sized hands very well. The blade came perfectly centered with no hint of blade play in any direction.

When I got the knife, the blade was sharp but not hair-poppingly so. A couple passes on the sharpmaker rods (brown and ceramic) and the edge was scary sharp! Now, I would like to make an initial observation about the steel here; it is noticeably easier to sharpen than S30V and the level of sharpness I was able to achieve seemed to be on par with what I can achieve on my M390 blades, i.e. it can whittle hair and is almost "sticky" to the touch. To say that I am impressed with sharpenability would be an understatement.

I have been carrying this knife all week, since the day I received it and have used it everyday, both at work and at home. I haven't yet forced it into any cutting or edge holding type tests as I just haven't had the time. That being said, I have used it throughout the course of my workday, opening packages and cutting down cardboard to be disposed of. I have a gun shop, so everything I receive is cardboard, packing tape and various packaging materials. The 14C28N has had no problem slicing cleanly through any of this and in the course of the work week, I haven't noticed any loss of sharpness. So, even though I haven't intentionally tested the edge holding ability, I can compare it to some of my other knives that I use at work for the same tasks, S30V (PM2, 0350, Ritter Grip), CTS-204P (Southard), M4 (BM 810), M390 (BM 755) and VG-10 (Delica 4).

I would like to comment first about the VG-10 because I had read a bunch of reviews about the Bad Monkey before purchasing it and I seem to remember a couple of comments comparing it to VG-10. I believe that there really is no comparison between the two. The 14C28N is far and away superior to the VG-10 in edge retention. The Delica would be fairly dull by the end of the day, whereas the Bad Monkey had no discernible loss of edge retention after a single day's work.

Against my S30V knives, it seems that the Bad Monkey keeps a razor's edge for longer than S30V. S30V is known to lose the razor edge fairly quickly, yet hold a good working edge for a long time and I've found this to be true throughout the years. In this case, it seems like the 14C28N will hold that razor edge about 2x as long as the S30V will and then goes to that good working edge. Since I've only had and used this knife for a week, I haven't yet been able to get it below that working edge, this is where it currently sits.

In comparison to CTS-204P and M390 (almost identical steels), The 14C28N will take a very comparable edge when sharpening, but will show signs of degradation before either of these other two will. I can't give you any numbers of cuts or anything like that other than to say my 204P and M390 still are as sharp on Friday as they were when I started on Monday, or very close to it. The Bad Monkey is not on the same level with regards to edge retention, but I didn't expect it to be. I will say that I can still make long draw cuts without much effort (48"-72" cardboard boxes that rifles are shipped in). It's not like I've been straining to get from one end to the other. The slicing ability is still very effortless and the cuts are very clean, no hang-ups or tears.

With regards to M4, it's here that I think the Bad Monkey compares the best. I frequently use my 810 Contego as my heavy duty knife for 2 reasons. One, it can take the abuse, and I know I won't get stuck with a dull edge out of the blue. The loss of edge retention is so slow and happens in such a predictable manner that I know when to take it to the sharpmaker for some light maintenance and then I'm right back to work. This knife has never let me down. The second reason is that with a robust handle and long blade, I can get a lot of leverage on the knife while making long draw cuts and it just slices material like it's not even there. Even boxes that are heavy duty doubly ply cardboard are no problem. Sure, it will dull the blade a little faster, but that takes a lot of cuts to do so. This Bad Monkey seems to really fit into this role quite nicely. The knife size is very comparable to the 810 and the blade steel even more so. This 14C28N really mimics Benchmade's M4 in my experience. I feel like when I reach for the Bad Monkey, I'm not giving up any performance to the 810 at all. Both steels have performed for me in such a manner that I haven't been able to tell much difference. In fact, the only difference that I've been able to notice so far is in ease of sharpening. The Bad Monkey takes fewer passes to achieve the same edge as the 810 does. They are both quite easy to sharpen and maintain, but that 14C28N is really unbelievably simple. It's really quite remarkable.

Take all of this with a grain of salt please. As I mentioned at the top of this ramble, I've only had the Bad Monkey for a week, but I am very impressed. I know that my observations aren't in any way scientific or were performed in any type of controlled environment, but they were made during real world use and subjected to the same materials in roughly the same manner as each other. I intend on doing a more thorough test of the Bad Monkey in the future just for the simple fact that there still isn't much useful info out there with regard to it's steel performance. I know that there is a ton of speculation, much of it negative, and I would like to dispel some of that if I can. I'm very impressed with this knife and I would like to share my thoughts and experiences with others over time.

 

[Bigfatts]

Great post Accelerator, good to see more positive thoughts on one of my favorite knives. I've been very impressed with mine. SG's 14C28N really is in another league from Kershaw's that's for sure, they don't even seem like the same steel.

To the OP, you come on here with tales of a 1 of a kind Bad Monkey made especially for you in a configuration SG doesn't even offer and you don't post pics?! WTH man? Ok, just kidding. But not really. Just host them on a site like Photobucket and link them.

 

[goldie]

I have one in jade green with their anodized blue liners,real nice knife,i really like it but have always thought like everyone else that the steel could have been a different type.seems to cut very well, though...

 

[Accelerator]

I have one in jade green with their anodized blue liners,real nice knife,i really like it but have always thought like everyone else that the steel could have been a different type.seems to cut very well, though...

Goldie, I don't suppose that you'd be willing to post up some pics of the scales and liners. The only pics that I've seen of that combo are on USA Made Blade and they aren't that great (no offense Whitty). It sounds very interesting.

 

[K.O.D.]

This from Knifecenter:

 

[amg137]

I picked up a waved CF Bad Monkey a few weeks ago and I suppose this would be the place to post my experiences with it so far. I absolutely love the knife, but it's not perfect.

Fit and finish are excellent. The CF meets the Ti liners almost perfectly - to the touch they are seamless, but the scales will catch a nail in a few places (doesn't bother me in the slightest, it looks and feels perfect). I absolutely love the CF texture. It looks great and has the perfect amount of grip. It won't slip out of your hand when wet, but neither is it so rough that it will be uncomfortable to hold or tear up your pants pockets.

Design and ergos are also excellent. I have medium to large hands, and this knife fits them perfectly. The handle is larger than necessary for me to get a comfortable grip on, but I have no hot spots when choked up or back in both forward in reverse grips. I love the classic blade shape, and the handle shape is like the lovechild of an SMF and a Sebenza.

The pivot is not as smooth as it could be, even with substantial breaking in. It flicks and waves open just fine, but slow opening is definitely a bit "sticky." I imagine it would become super smooth if I could clean it out and lube it up, but I haven't bought the pivot tools yet. The thumb stud is also quite sharp at the edges, which bothers me a little. There's absolutely no blade play, and lockup is extremely early at maybe 10% and has not moved in several hundred opening cycles.

I liked the looks of the short pocket clip, and had no problem with retention. It was, however, very uncomfortable as the lip dug into my hand, Whaleshark-style. After a couple days I decided I couldn't get used to it and swapped it for a BM arrow pocket clip, and I've been pleased with it ever since.

Now the steel... I know this is not going to be well received on this thread, but I've gotta say I'm REALLY underwhelmed here. I knew it was 14C28N going in, which I was totally fine with. I've had no complaints with Kershaw's 14C28N, and all reports seemed to indicate that SG's heat treat was substantially better. I was very excited to try it out, and was convinced it was going to be a perfectly decent EDC performer, on par with VG-10 or 154CM. It was not. It was push-cutting phonebook paper with no problem on day 1, and the next day I used it to break down about a dozen boxes at work (note that this means just cutting the tape on the bottom, not actually cutting through cardboard). By the end of the stack it was totally dull, barely able to tear through printer paper. I don't consider myself a steel snob, but I certainly expect my knives to hold up to a single day of typical work without needing a touch-up. It sharpened back up in a jiffy, but it just didn't last long enough to be near the top of my EDC rotation.

Long story short - 14C28N, even with SG's heat treat, is not a super steel. It's not even close. Expect the performance of AUS-8 with a decent heat treat. If you're OK with that, everything else about the knife is exceptional.


Almost forgot - I sent an email to SG asking about their lockbars. The lockbar on their CF/waved models is not carbidized, but it is on the G10 models. Their warranty also specifically states that they do not cover "normal wear and tear," which includes lockbar wear. I asked what it would cost to replace the lockbar if it should wear out. They said nobody has had that problem yet, but that they would replace the lockbar with a carbidized one for approximately $25 if that should happen. I thought this was a perfectly satisfactory price and assuaged my fears about lockbar failure, which is a problem I've run into repeatedly on bare titanium locks.

 

[K.O.D.]

I picked up a waved CF Bad Monkey a few weeks ago and I suppose this would be the place to post my experiences with it so far. I absolutely love the knife, but it's not perfect.

Fit and finish are excellent. The CF meets the Ti liners almost perfectly - to the touch they are seamless, but the scales will catch a nail in a few places (doesn't bother me in the slightest, it looks and feels perfect). I absolutely love the CF texture. It looks great and has the perfect amount of grip. It won't slip out of your hand when wet, but neither is it so rough that it will be uncomfortable to hold or tear up your pants pockets.

Design and ergos are also excellent. I have medium to large hands, and this knife fits them perfectly. The handle is larger than necessary for me to get a comfortable grip on, but I have no hot spots when choked up or back in both forward in reverse grips. I love the classic blade shape, and the handle shape is like the lovechild of an SMF and a Sebenza.

The pivot is not as smooth as it could be, even with substantial breaking in. It flicks and waves open just fine, but slow opening is definitely a bit "sticky." I imagine it would become super smooth if I could clean it out and lube it up, but I haven't bought the pivot tools yet. The thumb stud is also quite sharp at the edges, which bothers me a little. There's absolutely no blade play, and lockup is extremely early at maybe 10% and has not moved in several hundred opening cycles.

I liked the looks of the short pocket clip, and had no problem with retention. It was, however, very uncomfortable as the lip dug into my hand, Whaleshark-style. After a couple days I decided I couldn't get used to it and swapped it for a BM arrow pocket clip, and I've been pleased with it ever since.

Now the steel... I know this is not going to be well received on this thread, but I've gotta say I'm REALLY underwhelmed here. I knew it was 14C28N going in, which I was totally fine with. I've had no complaints with Kershaw's 14C28N, and all reports seemed to indicate that SG's heat treat was substantially better. I was very excited to try it out, and was convinced it was going to be a perfectly decent EDC performer, on par with VG-10 or 154CM. It was not. It was push-cutting phonebook paper with no problem on day 1, and the next day I used it to break down about a dozen boxes at work (note that this means just cutting the tape on the bottom, not actually cutting through cardboard). By the end of the stack it was totally dull, barely able to tear through printer paper. I don't consider myself a steel snob, but I certainly expect my knives to hold up to a single day of typical work without needing a touch-up. It sharpened back up in a jiffy, but it just didn't last long enough to be near the top of my EDC rotation.

Long story short - 14C28N, even with SG's heat treat, is not a super steel. It's not even close. Expect the performance of AUS-8 with a decent heat treat. If you're OK with that, everything else about the knife is exceptional.


Almost forgot - I sent an email to SG asking about their lockbars. The lockbar on their CF/waved models is not carbidized, but it is on the G10 models. Their warranty also specifically states that they do not cover "normal wear and tear," which includes lockbar wear. I asked what it would cost to replace the lockbar if it should wear out. They said nobody has had that problem yet, but that they would replace the lockbar with a carbidized one for approximately $25 if that should happen. I thought this was a perfectly satisfactory price and assuaged my fears about lockbar failure, which is a problem I've run into repeatedly on bare titanium locks.

This bummed me out. Oh well.

 

[jstrange]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I don't use my knives hard, and will likely not have to sharpen it for quite some time, but the above posts should help those trying to consider whether the steel is worth it to them. I am not a steel snob, but then again, I don't need to be, some of you who use your knives a lot probably need a super steel. I don't.

So I guess, you may ask is the knife worth it, if the steel is not everything it could be (mixed reviews above)? My answer is yes, for my use. All the materials (with the exception of the blade steel, maybe) are top notch, and it is assembled with a high degree of fit and finish. This is the second one I have owned and bot have been superb (the first one was traded back to its original owner at their request). I would say its the equal of any knife I have ever purchased, some more expensive, and the warranty seems to be decent coupled with excellent customer service (plus US made).

I don't have an account for any of the photo hosting services, but would be more than happy to email any to anyone who asks. I just tried to use the tinypic thing suggested above, but I am horrible with stuff like that and couldn't do it. And if anyone would like to post them to this thread, that would be really awesome too.

 

[jstrange]

Hey, what do you know, I did it.

 

[Accelerator]

Now the steel... I know this is not going to be well received on this thread, but I've gotta say I'm REALLY underwhelmed here. I knew it was 14C28N going in, which I was totally fine with. I've had no complaints with Kershaw's 14C28N, and all reports seemed to indicate that SG's heat treat was substantially better. I was very excited to try it out, and was convinced it was going to be a perfectly decent EDC performer, on par with VG-10 or 154CM. It was not. It was push-cutting phonebook paper with no problem on day 1, and the next day I used it to break down about a dozen boxes at work (note that this means just cutting the tape on the bottom, not actually cutting through cardboard). By the end of the stack it was totally dull, barely able to tear through printer paper. I don't consider myself a steel snob, but I certainly expect my knives to hold up to a single day of typical work without needing a touch-up. It sharpened back up in a jiffy, but it just didn't last long enough to be near the top of my EDC rotation.

Long story short - 14C28N, even with SG's heat treat, is not a super steel. It's not even close. Expect the performance of AUS-8 with a decent heat treat. If you're OK with that, everything else about the knife is exceptional.

Very interesting. My experience has been the complete opposite. In fact I was expecting the type of results that you got so I was very happy when mine performed as it did. Could this be due to growing pains that a new knife company might be going through, i.e. inconsistencies in the manufacturing process?

 

[amg137]

Very interesting. My experience has been the complete opposite. In fact I was expecting the type of results that you got so I was very happy when mine performed as it did. Could this be due to growing pains that a new knife company might be going through, i.e. inconsistencies in the manufacturing process?

It's certainly possible, I've only handled the one knife. I am thoroughly impressed with everything about the knife except for the edge retention. I certainly will give them another look when they release a second folder. I hope they swap steels to at least 154 or D2, I'd be willing to pay a premium for it.

 

[Accelerator]

It's certainly possible, I've only handled the one knife. I am thoroughly impressed with everything about the knife except for the edge retention. I certainly will give them another look when they release a second folder. I hope they swap steels to at least 154 or D2, I'd be willing to pay a premium for it.

I agree with you in regards to trying new steels, not that I am unhappy with their current choice, but why not shoot for the moon so to speak? I would love to see a 2nd version without the wave and a high flat grind ala Doug Ritter, using CTS-204P (USA made). While we're dreaming, how about a flipper too? I didn't mention it earlier as I was trying to concentrate on the steel, but I too have experienced somewhat stiff opening and closing. I assumed that it would break in since I consider this a new knife, but if yours hasn't changed after 100's of openings, maybe we can also dream for IKBS?

 

[dano]

Great knife. I dont fall into the steel-of-the-week mentality, nor do I fashion myself a keyboard metallurgist. It cuts great, holds an edge, and came with no manufacturer flaws.

IMO, the constant rotation of the popularity of "Super steels" has ruined the hobby. It became a marketing tool, above overall functionality, and many people bought into the hype.

 

[marthinus]

I picked up a waved CF Bad Monkey a few weeks ago and I suppose this would be the place to post my experiences with it so far. I absolutely love the knife, but it's not perfect.

Fit and finish are excellent. The CF meets the Ti liners almost perfectly - to the touch they are seamless, but the scales will catch a nail in a few places (doesn't bother me in the slightest, it looks and feels perfect). I absolutely love the CF texture. It looks great and has the perfect amount of grip. It won't slip out of your hand when wet, but neither is it so rough that it will be uncomfortable to hold or tear up your pants pockets.

Design and ergos are also excellent. I have medium to large hands, and this knife fits them perfectly. The handle is larger than necessary for me to get a comfortable grip on, but I have no hot spots when choked up or back in both forward in reverse grips. I love the classic blade shape, and the handle shape is like the lovechild of an SMF and a Sebenza.

The pivot is not as smooth as it could be, even with substantial breaking in. It flicks and waves open just fine, but slow opening is definitely a bit "sticky." I imagine it would become super smooth if I could clean it out and lube it up, but I haven't bought the pivot tools yet. The thumb stud is also quite sharp at the edges, which bothers me a little. There's absolutely no blade play, and lockup is extremely early at maybe 10% and has not moved in several hundred opening cycles.

I liked the looks of the short pocket clip, and had no problem with retention. It was, however, very uncomfortable as the lip dug into my hand, Whaleshark-style. After a couple days I decided I couldn't get used to it and swapped it for a BM arrow pocket clip, and I've been pleased with it ever since.

Now the steel... I know this is not going to be well received on this thread, but I've gotta say I'm REALLY underwhelmed here. I knew it was 14C28N going in, which I was totally fine with. I've had no complaints with Kershaw's 14C28N, and all reports seemed to indicate that SG's heat treat was substantially better. I was very excited to try it out, and was convinced it was going to be a perfectly decent EDC performer, on par with VG-10 or 154CM. It was not. It was push-cutting phonebook paper with no problem on day 1, and the next day I used it to break down about a dozen boxes at work (note that this means just cutting the tape on the bottom, not actually cutting through cardboard). By the end of the stack it was totally dull, barely able to tear through printer paper. I don't consider myself a steel snob, but I certainly expect my knives to hold up to a single day of typical work without needing a touch-up. It sharpened back up in a jiffy, but it just didn't last long enough to be near the top of my EDC rotation.

Long story short - 14C28N, even with SG's heat treat, is not a super steel. It's not even close. Expect the performance of AUS-8 with a decent heat treat. If you're OK with that, everything else about the knife is exceptional.


Almost forgot - I sent an email to SG asking about their lockbars. The lockbar on their CF/waved models is not carbidized, but it is on the G10 models. Their warranty also specifically states that they do not cover "normal wear and tear," which includes lockbar wear. I asked what it would cost to replace the lockbar if it should wear out. They said nobody has had that problem yet, but that they would replace the lockbar with a carbidized one for approximately $25 if that should happen. I thought this was a perfectly satisfactory price and assuaged my fears about lockbar failure, which is a problem I've run into repeatedly on bare titanium locks.

Quite interesting. Have you sharpened the knife since removing enough material to expose 'fresh' steel?

The reason I ask is many companies power sharpen their blades that can result in the edge becoming over heated.

Ot has been reported with many manufacturers and steels.

 

[amg137]

Quite interesting. Have you sharpened the knife since removing enough material to expose 'fresh' steel?

The reason I ask is many companies power sharpen their blades that can result in the edge becoming over heated.

Ot has been reported with many manufacturers and steels.

I've only given it a light touch up, so any burnt edge is probably still a problem (if that is indeed the issue). I still really like the knife and have no plans to get rid of it, but I only carry it on days that I don't think I'm likely to need to use a knife much. The next time it needs a touch up I'll give it a proper sharpening. If there's any significant change in edge retention I'll post about it here.