Spain, Silat And Where Else?

J

J_Ringo

Joined
Nov 26, 1999
Messages
176
OK, so the FMA's are a combination of the indigenous Philipines, Indonesian Silat and Spanish influence.

(And even that statement sends some people postal over what per cent is Spanish; Your family style stinks because it's over 40% Malaysian, You northeners know nothing compared to us Southeners and vice versa--all of which makes for very difficult research)

What I'd like to know is what other arts you think, know for a fact, or suspect have influenced the FMA's--I'm talking pre WW2, of course, or we might have to throw Tae Kwon Do into the equation!

I've heard Chinese Kuntao, Thai Boxing, Lima Lama (Is that pre WW2?) Bando and even stranger suggestions that I don't want to dismiss outright; I'd really like to know.

(Of course we will be in agreement that your guru is the best of the best, so let's keep it polite and objective, ok?)

I'd be particularly interested from those who have trained in these other styles. Or done research on their own.

I put WW2 as a timeframe, even though the FMA's were established long before, because after WW2 so many FMA ers came to the US, cross trained in arts like TKD that couldn't be part of the original "Source".

Thanks in advance for all your replies.
 
Western Boxing likely had an influence.

Keith

------------------
Attitude Is Everything!
 
There could be Chinese influence and Indian influence. The ancient Filipinos were trading with both India and China long before the Spanish came to the Philippines. In fact, there even was a Chinese pirate who made Xan Lei (now Sanley Point in Cavite City)as his base. Of course, India has it's own stick fighting arts (if memory serves me right, it is practiced mostly by women in India; I could be wrong, though...)As you see, we could look both at ancient China and India as influencing the Filipino martial arts. And I doubt it very much if TKD has any influence on the art...
smile.gif

 
What I have studied from my Philippine History were:

Filipinos came to land in the Islands of the Philippines from Malaysia and Indonesia (to make it more understandable).

These several waves of immigrants were also composed of different chieftains that landed in several parts of the whole Archipelago. The boat they have used in crossing the seas is called Barangay. These has two pronounciation, in a mild tone or abrupt tone. That is how barangay as the smallest unit of a town that got its' name. So, in one or more vessel (barangay/s) composed of one group of tribes. These immigrants came from different ethnic groups also from Malaysia and Indonesia.

Also, J-Ringo, why don't you add that the Arabs traders (from middle east) has also traded with Philippines even before the coming of Spanish, Chinese and Indians. As for the Americans and Japanese influence are just new occurrences, but the old traders are, Chinese, Arabs, and Indians. But I believed there is really a different culture among the immigrants to the archipelago, because of different language and different physical structure.

I think one of the original MA's in Philippines is the use of:
Bow and Arrows (famous by the Negritoes, small negro) this words was coined by the spaniards for they see small negro in Philippines compared to the big sizes negros in Africa during their voyage around the globe.

In conclusion, we Filipinos has no pure identity that we may say he is pure of this kind. What matters now we represent one country and that is "Philippines" and we are Filipinos no matter what, be a muslim, christians, hindu, atheist etc. as we are comprised of many mixture of blood and many ethnic groups, the same as the americans that it comprises of many kinds of nationalities from all corners of the globe, that form a USA. Thus all martial arts has influence of other nationalities. Also, I want to let you know that most southerners in Philippines are mostly from the North (especially the Ilocanos) and also from the Visayas (the visayanos). Non, could claim that if he is from south they are better, and they are really belong to the south. For if they look their grand grand fathers, they came from different places in the Achipelago.

Thanks



[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited 03-01-2000).]

[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited 03-04-2000).]
 
Appreciate your responses; I'd love to know more.

Forgot about Draeger's book. (Actually I loaned it to a friend and he forgot to return it, but that's another story)

The mention of Arab traders refreshed my memory on a strange and interesting point; a statement made by (I believe--hope I'm not misquoting sources!)Pendekar Paul de Thours that Silat actually came originally from Egypt.

I know it sounds odd, but Pankranteon died out, and we don't hear much about the ancient arts from India, either, so I suppose it's possible they evolved and changed as they migrated.

I know it's too much to hope for a lost document to pop up in some library buy I do find this speculation fascinating.

I guess it'll remain speculation, but the FMA have such a unique and distinct flavor about them that I can't help but wonder--Which Chinese style(s) or What about Bando? etc.

Thank you all again.

 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
best of my knowledge, kuntaw in the philippines has no direct influence with pakua. it has influence here in the u.s. only because some of the people who are teaching kuntaw now were once kung fu people!

this statement is not a "flame" it is the truth...before you answer, remember that there are people who knew you "when"...
 
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[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
i am not commenting on these to peoples styles, because i do not know them. without saying a name, i have seen a few people who call themself kuntaw/kuntao now who about ten years ago admit to me they did not know kuntaw and what it is. and just like stdalire has said before, lets call a spade a spade. i personaly do not like to see people make up an art and try to give it a credible lineage, when there is none. my guess is since everyone now knows that there is no style of panantukan/pananjakman other than the styles that someone recently made, some bogus artists who do not have the courage to admit that they made their own style (and there is nothing wrong with making a style, but be TRUTHFUL!) now go to the dutch (not indonesians) to borrow indonesian ideas and blend it with their limited knowledge of the philippine styles and call it a "deadly"/ancient/secret/recenlty released/re-discovered philippine style! i am not a player hater, but i have very strong feelings about his kind of rape and rewriting of my culture. and if anyone here _really_ cared about the integrity and future of the philippine martial arts, they would care too! i really dont care if someone it legitamate, because my goal is to test everyone i contact with, their legitamacy will come out eventually. but when someone makes a claim about MY philippine arts, it is MY duty to protect it or uncover it.

my only point without wanting to fuel a fire is, that maybe some of the people we are looking at to find out what Philippine Kuntaw is are the wrong people. look at the lineage; it is hard to confirm i know, but there are people who knew them while they are learning it. i personally have seen very little kuntaw outside my own, but believe me, it is nothing like pa kua, and i do know a little about the chinese martial arts.
 
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