Sparks with Morakniv Bushcraft?

[mcandre]

Hi,

I bought a Morakniv Bushcraft M-10791 under the impression that it would be suitable as a fire starting steel on flint rocks. However, no amount of knocks with a flint against the spine produce any sparks. Just flint chipping and wearing of a PVC-like coating. Help?

The flint rock is known to be good. When I instead strike the rock on a colonial style steel brace, then I get plenty of sparks.

To be precise, I am testing the knife with the rock on a cutting board, with known good charcloth wedged at the knife tip. No sparks or embers from the knife spine, when the rock is repeatedly struck at a sharp rock edge down at the spine.

Of course, the knife does draw sparks from a ferrocerium rod. But any good knife should.

I also tried the method of pinching a piece of charcloth atop the rock, right above where I smack with steel. That works with the colonial steel brace to produce an ember. But again, no sparks or embers from the Morakniv spine.

All elements and the environment are bone dry. The knife spine is squared and unpolished. The flint rock offers several working sides that can spark. Just not with the knife.

To be fair, an earlier flint rock and steel brace I had purchased, were both duds. So even among steel braces, there is some variability of carbon content. But I feel like I got a bad bush knife with low real carbon content, even against the advertised capability.

I specifically got this knife to enable flint sparks as an emergency backup. Do I need to now buy a raw diamond or what?

 

[Fixall]

It could be the coating causing the issue, since it's the steel itself that burns and causes the sparks... Or you might have gotten a Bushcraft that was run a bit soft. I believe Mora carbon steel has ~1% carbon content, and is run at 58 - 60hrc. The few strikers I have on hand are advertised with a hardness of 62hrc.

 

[Joseph Bandeko]

I think that it’s one or both of the things that Fixall said

 

[Shrub]

That is a disappointment.
I'd have expected it to be a good striker.
All I can figure is that it must be the effect of the coating they put on the blade.

 

[dogstar]

I haven't done this myself, just read books. The only requirement I have heard of is carbon steel, never heard of a hardness requirement.

 

[dogstar]

Well okay, I just read this:
Iron by itself is relatively soft and tends to bend rather than chip under the stress of a hard blow on a piece of flint. To make iron harder for use in industry, it is made into what we call steel by adding some carbon. However by making it harder, the steel is also becomes more brittle. The harder a piece of steel the smaller the pieces of iron broken from it will be when struck against a hard sharp object. As discussed earlier, smaller pieces of iron will spontaneously burn hotter due to their increased surface area. Another way to get hotter sparks is to break off smaller pieces from the steel by striking it against a harder, sharper object. This is why you need to keep the edges of your flint very sharp for optimum creation of hot sparks when striking the steel. In short, harder steel and sharper flints give better sparks.

Copyright © SurvivalTopics.com Read more at: http://survivaltopics.com/flint-and-steel-what-causes-the-sparks/

 

[catspa]

As discussed earlier, smaller pieces of iron will spontaneously burn hotter due to their increased surface area.

Can you ‘splain in 10,000 words or less how smaller pieces of iron can have increased surface area (than presumably “larger” pieces)?

Perhaps there should be a mention of total or cumulative surface area, as in a discussion of fuel vapor droplets in a combustion chamber.

Parker

 

[dogstar]

Can you ‘splain in 10,000 words or less how smaller pieces of iron can have increased surface area (than presumably “larger” pieces)?

Perhaps there should be a mention of total or cumulative surface area, as in a discussion of fuel vapor droplets in a combustion chamber.

Parker

Hi, I didn't write that article, but I will take a stab at it. I think what is really meant is surface area to volume ratio. For example, if you look at a thin wire and a sphere, both with the same surface area, the thin wire will be quicker to heat or cool compared to the sphere. A better example would be, if you put a BB and a cannonball in an oven, the BB will get up to temperature quicker than the cannonball.

If you read the full article I quoted, it says that iron is pyrophoric, which means it ignites when exposed to air, before a protective coating of oxide is able to form around it. The smaller piece of iron will reach a higher temperature because of a higher surface area to volume ratio, meaning there is more relative surface exposure to air and less internal mass to heat up.

 

[mcandre]

As I indicated earlier, my flint rock features multiple sharp edges that do produce a spark. Just with a colonial steel brace, not the Morakniv spine.

This is the second time I've been burned, pun intended, when purchasing a knife for use as a chert flint striker.

Generally, marketing material lies about the true suitability of knives for raw flint rock usage. They tend to implicitly assume a "flint" ferro rod instead of a rock. As much as I love my ferro rod, I want a knife that can function with a rock, in case I lose my rod.

Every flint & steel fire starting guide says to use "high carbon" steel. But rarely do they bother to quantify how high the content needs to be for quartz or chert flints to spark up. And most knives sold as "high carbon" steel also fail to specify the actual carbon content, in terms relevant to flint rock discussion.

Multiple contestants on Alone left shortly after losing their ferro rod. So having a true flint option is a helpful backup. If you lose the rod, you may still use a flint rock. I don't know how "professional' survivalists made it onto that show with a ferro rod dependency, but their episodes show how important the distinction can be.

Backups are fantastic, dependencies are disastrous. Honestly, I keep other backups with my kit as well, including a filled zippo and some matches, and the steel hand brace thingy. Backups on backups. Getting a knife to spark on rock is my latest hurdle to clear. After that, a bow drill would be cool to try out.

I read some forum posts about how Morakniv's were supposed to be great at true flint rock striking. Yet, not even all Moraknivs are designed for flint rock striking. I can't tell yet if my Bushcraft model needs more coating wearing down first or if it's a complete dud.