Special-ops Folders?

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fishbulb

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Sep 18, 2001
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There are a number of manufacturers who insinuate that their knives are the choice of any number of elite military units. Some of these knives are folding blades.

I'm curious as to just why some elite commando type would be carrying a folder of any kind.

As far as I know, folders have two real advantages over fixed blades:
1) they fold for easy carry and concealment with street clothes
2) they are considerably less likely to freak people out

Seems to me that if you are wearing a good deal of military equipment already, and likely carrying a gun, then both of these advantages are negated.

It is also clear that (generally speaking) fixed blades are superior to folders in terms of strength, cost, reliability, comfort, and performance.

With my admittedly limited knowledge of this sort of thing I really can't imagine why some "special operator" would choose to carry a folder. I suppose if it was an undercover thing then that would make sense, but from the marketing that I have seen the implication seems to be more military than police work.

So is there anything to these claims? If so, why?
 
One issue is Size and weight These guys when in action have body armor side arm Flashlight car 15 and so on and so on When I talked to people in the military they use the knife for utillity more then anything. Cutting Boxes Rope Food and other uses most of us use them for. however they use them more often and cant readily aquire the same knife they had before like us when in the field if they break it or whatever. Knives are used for utility purposes mostly Most of them say "If Both my guns are dead in the water so am I" Knives are not The first choice for killing and wont ever since the invention of the hand gun
 
I have to agree that a folder for combat seems like a contradiction. But I think any knife for combat is an unlikely need. So the folder is a utility, and a small blade is more convenient than a big camp knife, and can stay with you in less than full combat dress. I would think that a small, tough neck knife like the Assault Shaker would make at least as much sense, though: poke and pry without a pivot to get sand in it.

Unless the military has been looting warehouses and bank vaults, I wonder how many "operators" can actually afford some of the really high-end folders, like an AR or SnG? I mean, we are talking here about a price two to three times that of a small fixed blade that arguably would serve them better.

Let's not discount the toy factor entirely, though; the knife as working jewelry.
 
Truly these guys carry what ever they want. If they choose to carry one over the other no one usually tells them no unless there is a serious problem with it. I've seen guys with every kind of a knife you could imagine. Some really take it seriously and carry something like a Busse, Strider, or Chris Reeve. Some could give a crap and load up a buck, or gerber (nothing wrong with those knives... it's just they are more main stream and not considered end of the world type knives). In the end it comes down to why some of use like Microtech while others like cold steel. Personal choice. Those that choose folders probably like the fact that it can be slipped in the pocket (Cause you usually have to lash anything one the outside to your web with 550 cord) and some choose crap cause they just never really use their knife much and their buddy always has one. Some Spec Ops guys are knife guys some could give a rip.
 
The Benchmade 970 was originally produced specifically for the Navy Seals. It's an Emerson design, but the Navy wanted more than his shop could, at the time, produce. So, they approached BM. But, the Navy order was to small for BM to justify tooling up their high-tech factory. The compromise was to allow BM to sell the knife as a commercial product. That way, the volume became high enough for BM to justify tooling up.

The AFCK has a similar story only it was originally made for the Army Rangers.

So, yes, even the Special Forces use folding knives... Benchmade folding knives.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
The Benchmade 970 was originally produced specifically for the Navy Seals. It's an Emerson design, but the Navy wanted more than his shop could, at the time, produce. So, they approached BM. But, the Navy order was to small for BM to justify tooling up their high-tech factory. The compromise was to allow BM to sell the knife as a commercial product. That way, the volume became high enough for BM to justify tooling up.

The AFCK has a similar story only it was originally made for the Army Rangers.

So, yes, even the Special Forces use folding knives... Benchmade folding knives.
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Yes, but why are they doing so?

What advantages are conferred upon them by the use of a foldier rather than a fixed blade?

Even if the knives are used purely for utility rather than as weapons, a fixed blade is still the clear winner. I'd gladly trade my folder for a small EDC fixed blade were I not worried about causing a stampede at the bank or movie theater.
 
And where would you carry that small fixed blade?
On your belt, where it's under your BDUs, hard to get to, and uncomfortable under web gear?
On your LBE, where it's gone every time you drop your gear?
As a neck knife, where it's under two shirts, including a t-shirt that's tucked in at the waist?
Folders are convenient. That's their(only, IMO) advantage. It's a big advantage sometimes, though. They are also much better at day to day tasks that make up the majority of a soldiers knife chores than the overbuilt prybars that people seem to think soldiers are always ripping open vehicles, prying open doors, breaking banding material off ammo crates under fire, and digging holes in the ground with.

Convenience is the same reason for that overbuilt prybar of a knife like we see so much of. Why is it overbuilt for a knife? So it can be used for things that a knife isn't intended for. It's like a multitool that has pliers, scissors, saw knife blades, and screwdrivers. Not the best tool for the job, but one you have with you, when you can't realistically carry every individual tool you might need.

Some people can't see the use for either, for whatever reason.
If I were to reup tomorrow, I'd take both (and a multitool or SAK that in reality would probably see the vast majority of my use...).
 
Folders are convenient, but a small fixed blade with a clip on the case or a tec-lok can be just as convenient. I have a small Dawson in a pocket sheath, the kydex folded down at the top to clip onto a pocket just like a folder. But are we talking about speed of deployment? An extra second pulling a knife out from under a shirt or a pocket?

Folders work fine for light cutting, for sure. But I wouldn't want to trust my life to a Benchmade in a fight, if I could get a solider blade. And I don't think a 970 or AFCK is much use on crates. No folder is as dirt-resistant as a fixed blade.
 
because the military will pay for it and then they get to keep it and use it while off-duty in civilian clothes/ duh...
 
voodoo has a point. Spec ops don't always operate in uniform. So, they want there tools more easily concealed. As my buddy pointed out, most knives used in the FIELD aren't high end knives. The high end stuff is kept for certain missions or just as status symbols.

Yes many do get used, but not by most. These guys don't want to loose their prized tools if they don't have to. Another reason they don't like to carry high end knives regulary when deployed is dealing with the trading customs while operating with another countries military. They usually end up trading something of theirs for something of the other guys. Many times, the other guy makes the choice and it is not wise to deny the trade. Wouldn't want to loose a $300+ Strider for a cheap gold watch.
 
Most of these guys carry inexpensive folders such as Buck 110's and Spyderco's. You need to understand that losing tools in the field during combat is a possibility when you have little control over your environment. When you go camping or hiking on your own, you have more control over your enviornment and you can take the time to properly pack things away or stow them. I rarely saw anyone with expensive ($100 or more) cutlery in the field. Of course there can be that individual like Navy SEAL John Gay who carried a Randall in Somalia. An AK-47 round slammed into his leg, shattering his Randall. It probably saved his leg from a worse injury. He still had to have bits of the blade removed from his leg and he had to replace his expensive knife. For combat use, I carried an AirForce Pilot Survival knife. Today I would carry a Kabar or Becker and save my $500 Lile for hiking and camping. :)
 
Don't buy into the marketing too much. From what I have seen in the sevice, the military does not advocate the use of a folder as a fighting weapon. Only fixed blades were used in training to dispatch the enemy. I like tough folders as much as the next guy, but I don't consider them as a good weapon for one reason... the possibility of them closing. No matter how well the lock is made/designed, it can still be closed by accident. :)
 
Originally posted by Wunderbar
Don't buy into the marketing too much. From what I have seen in the sevice, the military does not advocate the use of a folder as a fighting weapon. Only fixed blades were used in training to dispatch the enemy. I like tough folders as much as the next guy, but I don't consider them as a good weapon for one reason... the possibility of them closing. No matter how well the lock is made/designed, it can still be closed by accident. :)
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Oh, believe me, I don't buy into this sort of marketing at all.

Frankly, I despise it. Selling image rather than techincal competency is one of the things that I really dislike about knife marketing.

I generally assume that these sort of claims are all BS.

I posted this thread to get some other opinions, and maybe an explantion of just what basis in reality (if any) these manufacturers have.
 
Most of what the special forces take out with them on a mission is seen as disposable. It will either be used to the point of breakage, lost, or abandoned when it's no longer needed to save weight. And in the event of a sudden abort, retreat, or change of plan, they may end up dumping just about everything.
 
Also dont forget that in todays military there are increasing restrictions on what soldiers can have in the way of knives. So folders can get around that a little more than say a 9" fixed blade.
 
I dont know how about special forces (never been there), but for a combatant the most important blade is multitool, secondary its good to EDC a nice folder on you all the time (not to expensive becouse
it'll just get lost anyways), and in tactical vest you should keep fixed blade, preferably made with 420 stainless or other crap like that, becouse its gonna get wet ALOT, and you dont need this knife for cutting tasks, so justkeep it sharp "just in case" in my three years, i seen only once that someone actualy used knife to kill a person.
 
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