SPOT : Question for Sal n whitewater paddlers/rafters

spyken

spyken

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Apr 29, 2002
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Sal/ors...

I've been looking at paddling-specific knives, but haven't yet found one that I like/think has the best function/aesthetics/cutting ability. Recently I've been considering the SPOT as a possible kayaking knife. I have in mind the serrated version. (Sal), I wonder if you could share your design considerations with me wrt the SPOT:

(1) I'm thinking of inverted carry of the SPOT (lashed to the PFD). Is the sheath safe/secure enough for such carry? Or is the retention inadequate for whitewater purposes? I'm assuming worse case scenario - "washing machine" stuff, wipe-outs (sea-surfing)? crazy holes etc.
etc. Can the sheath be adapted to such use?

(2) What about the blade shape and length? Is the short blade of the SPOT adequate/appropriate for a safety paddling knife?

My thinking is that the SPOT with its < 2 inch blade poses less danger if inadvertantly stabbed into victim/user. Also, the pointed tip allows the pricking of raft tubes w/o slashing as compared to a warnecliff-style blade. The serrations work well on rope as well. Plus the finger-hole style give absolutely positive grip and is easy to "feel" without looking.

I think my (externally-worn) paddling knife should be able to do the following:
(1) cut safety rope/nylon webbing/cable ties/duct tape like butter;
(2) prick/cut through raft material/spray skirts/neoprene when necessary;
(3) cut vines/obstacles acting as strainers;
(4) perform as a small utility blade for minor camp chores;

be lightweight, be easily accessed even w/o sight, have positve grip and have excellent sheath-retention capabilities. And no, I don't want any 420J "river knife".

Hope Sal and/or ors can share their thoughts. I'm rather excited about the possibility of using the SPOT as my paddling knife, in addition to it being a back-up protection tool.;)

Spyken
 
Hi Spyken,

My experience with whitewater is quite limited. I will offer my opinions, but I would also like to hear Mike Sastre's opinion. He has both knowledge and expeience with both white water and knives and I think his opinions would be worthy.


(1) I'm thinking of inverted carry of the SPOT (lashed to the PFD). Is the sheath safe/secure enough for such carry? Or is the retention inadequate for whitewater purposes? I'm assuming worse case scenario - "washing machine" stuff, wipe-outs (sea-surfing)? crazy holes etc.
etc. Can the sheath be adapted to such use?

I would wait for the current sheath. We are calibrating tension at 10 lbs and there is also an adjuster on the sheath for additional "grip" as desired. They should be shipping in the next weeks or so.

(2) What about the blade shape and length? Is the short blade of the SPOT adequate/appropriate for a safety paddling knife?

The blade
My thinking is that the SPOT with its < 2 inch blade poses less danger if inadvertantly stabbed into victim/user. Also, the pointed tip allows the pricking of raft tubes w/o slashing as compared to a warnecliff-style blade. The serrations work well on rope as well. Plus the finger-hole style give absolutely positive grip and is easy to "feel" without looking.

I think my (externally-worn) paddling knife should be able to do the following:
(1) cut safety rope/nylon webbing/cable ties/duct tape like butter;

This should be no problem.

(2) prick/cut through raft material/spray skirts/neoprene when necessary;

should also be no problem.

(3) cut vines/obstacles acting as strainers;

the serrated version would be best fot this.

(4) perform as a small utility blade for minor camp chores;

I use mine for simple chores because of the easy access.

be lightweight, be easily accessed even w/o sight, have positve grip and have excellent sheath-retention capabilities. And no, I don't want any 420J "river knife".

Hope Sal and/or ors can share their thoughts. I'm rather excited about the possibility of using the SPOT as my paddling knife, in addition to it being a back-up protection tool.

Make sure to keep it sharp.

sal
 
thanks Sal - that was quick. that's exactly why you have a loyal spyderco customer here (I already own 2!).

hope to hear from Mike Sastre (can someone highlight this thread to him?) and also from HJK and the other paddlers out there.

so far, only the sheath is an issue - but may be resolved with the new version / Mike's input. but what do the other paddlers think about the SPOT as a paddling knife generally? I'm wondering why no one has ever suggested this openly on the forum previously?

Spyken
 
My paddling knife is a rescue. I carry it clipped front IWB in my paddling shorts. I paddle a whitewater canoe, so i do not wear a skirt. I also carry a plain edge folder in my PFD pouch...

My concern is that in an emergency situation with a 2 inch knife I will not be able to cut thru a piece of (for example) rope in one swipe. A longer blade, like a rescue, affords the user a bit more of "sawing" motion which, together with serrations, might help in a "panicky" situation...

A sheepsfoot blade also helps with the "accidental" stabbing issue


Different people choose different knives for different reasons (whaa?)

Bill
 
spyken,

This subject comes up about every 4-6 months with a lot of different recommendations, and while I will give mine, I will also say to use the tools you are most comfortable with, based on your ability, training, experience, and the type (or class) of water you play in. Your four points indicate that you've put some good thought into the selection of a kayaking knife. The only point I'd change a little would be the fourth. I like to keep my rescue knife and chore knife seperate. Murphy's whole family loves to paddle, so Murphy's Law is always in effect on the river, and this will mean that as soon as your knife is dull from using, or gunked up with peanut butter or whatever, that'll be the time you need to use it in a serious situation.

In a rescue scenario, time is your worst enemy, so we're looking for speed and efficiency (while maintaining safety) and a quality cutting tool is mandatory. You need to be able to access your knife in a hurry while still having it secure enough to survive a Class V swim or being "maytagged" in a hydraulic or ocean wave, so a good sheath system is also mandatory. The entire package should be as compact as possible because boaters go through a lot of body contortions - twisting, turning, tucking, ducking - and you don't want any of the gear you carry to interfere with your movements and/or snag on anything. For this reason I like folders - you can get an efficient sized blade in a small package that won't be in the way. I also like the hawkbill blade shape - the curve gives you more bite per cut, you have a point for puncturing or splinter removal and if you have to cut material that is close or tight to the body, by placing the blade spine against the victim, any slip will direct the edge/point up and away from him/her, so it has a built in safety factor. Water has never been a stable platform to work on. Serrations are a must because you will most likely be cutting rope or webbing. (I once had to cut a tree root that had an illegal cabled trout line attached, that was snagging kayak students in a local training area.) For all of the above reasons, my choice of river knife has been the Spyderco Merlin ever since it was introduced, and it has served me very well indeed. With the advent of the SpyderHawk (thanks, Sal), I have replaced my trusty plastic clip Merlin with one of these for the added cutting power. A rescue knife is something that will be carried a lot and hopefully used little (or not at all), but when you need it, you want to be able to get the job done as fast as possible. The SPOT actually has some good attributes as a kayak knife, with the exception of size, and if the tension adjustment a la Ronin is used on the sheath, could serve pretty well if you are not getting into the stickier situations.

Aside - we've got flood stage rivers and creeks here now, and had to send a rescue group down one creek yesterday looking for another group of paddlers we knew to be on it, after seeing a lost kayak paddle come flying down the creek (trouble indicator) by itself. Many strainers, tight turns, big holes, reactionary waves, and ledge drops. Knives carried by the group were an Endura, two Merlins, a SpyderHawk, and a River Shorty - all in secure quick release sheaths.
 
Mike,
Generally, I'm uncomfortable with a folder for whitewater use as it's subject to the extra action of "opening", which is subject to possible fumbling.

Is it possible to make a sheath to store the serrated Harpy/Merlin/Hawk in an "opened" position? Will the hawkbill shape prevent this from being done? Would this make it even better? What about a sheath for the rescue in open position?

Spyken
 
Spyken,

Good Idea! I have seen the concept of a sheathed folder in the open position (Keating maybe?)The versatility factor goes up....When you are done playing in the water you can remove the folder and put it in your pocket...:cool:

Bill
 
Robert H on this forum does business as www.survivalsheath.com and makes sheaths for several Spyderco folders in the extended position as stock designs, and will custom-make a sheath for anything you send him. Just look out for places such as California and Massachusetts where such sheaths may run afoul of the law. I have a belt sheath made by Robert H that holds my Gunting in the extended position. By simply unscrewing the Tek-lok, it can become a neck sheath if I wanted. He works in Concealex, which is a thermoform-type of plastic quite similar to kydex, and is available in black, olive, and white. He also makes chest rigs and shoulder rigs for both knives and guns, and other items such as axes and even hammers. I have one of his chest rigs for a Glock pistol, bought a chest rig for a Swiss Army knife for my wife, and currently he is handling an order from me for several more sheaths.
 
Spyken,

Yes, a sheath can be made with the blade deplyed - I've been doing IWBs like that for years and Rob at Survival Sheaths got this concept from me when he first started. On a PFD, I'd stick with the Merlin/Harpy configuration just to keep the size of the package to a minimum. I like to carry my knife tucked out of the way on the chest adjustment straps of the PFD. Doesn't interfere with any movements and can be accessed with either hand.
 
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