Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker

WadeF

WadeF

Joined
Apr 12, 2000
Messages
2,116
How does everyone like this product? I was wondering which angle everyone prefers, the 40 or the 30 degree for the edge of the knife. Does everyone follow the instructions given on the video? Or have you developed a better technique? Also do they make any corser stones for this unit?

Thanks,
Wade in PA
 
Makes all my other sharpening gizmos obsolete. I've been plenty pleased with the 40 deg edge, so I've never felt the need to go thinner.

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AKTI Member #A000832

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, the bear eats you."
 
I love the 204. I do not follow the directions from Spyderco. I use the burr method, specifically as outlined in the Sharpening FAQ and Juranitch's book. Aside from the technique itself, I also change the order of bevelling. Spyderco suggests laying down the 20-degree bevel first, then a 15-degree "backbevel" afterwards. I think this order is backwards, and I lay down the backbevel (which I call "thinning bevels") first.

For most folders, I typically lay down the 15-degree thinning bevels to within about 1/64" of the very edge. Then I switch to the 20-degree bevels and use the burr method (one side only until you get a burr along the entire length of the other side, then switch sides & repeat, then start alternating sides, and lessen the pressure as you move to finer stones).

A knife with the 15 degree thinning bevels will easily outcut a knife without thinning bevels, and with thinning bevels will be much easier to sharpen next time, too.

Joe
 
Thanks for the tips Joe T, and everyone elses comments. I used my gatco to put a bevel on one of my old butterflies that has a real thick blade, then I finished off on the 204, when I was done I did a little stropping on some card board with some polish (as the faq stated), until I get my leather strop, and I watched the hair from my arm pile on top of the blade as I slide the knife up my arm. Pretty soon my arms will be hairless.
smile.gif


-Wade in PA
 
I've got one and it's the best around. The only shortcoming is the need for stones or diamond sleeves to make re-profiling go quicker.

Joe,

I can't remember what the Sharpmaker book says, but in the video I remember Sal saying to use the 20 first. If it doesn't get the edge sharp, go to 15. I think he meant to imply that you then come back to 20. Do they actually say to do 20 then 15 and quit somewhere? What on earth wonder be logic?

Curious...

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Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988

AKTI Member #A000831

[This message has been edited by Codeman (edited 04-28-2000).]
 
Codeman,
I'm afraid your misunderstood both Joe and Sal. It is no matter to sharpen the edge to 30 or 40 degrees. Your edge has to have two bevels - one with 30 degrees and another with 40. I'll try to explain in some pictures.
View

Here you can see how properly sharpened edge looks in crosscut.
Area 1 is the main cutting edge with 40 degree bevel. This is the optimal angle for most utility, working or tactical knives. Sharper angle will make the edge sharper but weaker. Less sharp beveling will make the edge stronger but will affect sharpness.
Area 2 is so called back bevel or thinning bevel. It reduces cut material resistance thanks to the lack of pronounced angle between main edge and the rest of blade's side surface.
Area 3 is the blade's main grind. It is as manufacturer has ground it and here you can do nothing when sharpening.
View

Here you can see how Joe is proposing to sharpen the edge. First you must create the single bevel with 30-degree sharpening angle until the burr on the opposite side will show you the bevels are meeting themselves. Now you must remove very sharp but weak "tip" of the edge grinding it to 40 degrees. I marked this area with dark color.
View

Here you can see how to obtain the same result following Sal's advice. First you have to crate the main edge grinding your blade with 40-degree sharpening angle. Later you have to remove the shoulders between the edge and blade's main grind grinding it at 30 degrees (two dark areas on my picture).
Comparing these methods: Joe's method is more accurate but wasting more edge's width. If I would make new knife myself I would use this method. However I'm too greedy to waste so much steel
wink.gif
so sharpening production knives I use Sal's method.

As to Shaprmaker, it is the simplest and the most cost- and result-efficient sharpening device I know, ideal for beginners and very useful for experienced sharpeners.
But bee careful - don't allow your tip to slide down from the rod, especially used in the "edge" mode. The last some millimeters of the tip must be sharpened using Sharpmaker in bench stone mode.

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Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 04-29-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sergiusz Mitin (edited 04-29-2000).]
 
Hi Sergiusz, well done and well said.
I do it "a little bit" differently:
first do the 30° to burr on both sides,
then deburr with 40° just a few very light strokes, creating the 40° edge,
which then can be "steeled" in use(on the white stone, at the same angle but ALONG the edge) many, many times until after prolonged use a new sharpening session is required.
Happy sharpening.
smile.gif


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D.T. UTZINGER
 
Thanks for the explanation (a very good one, too), but I already knew this. I think you misunderstood me because I didn't word my post correctly. My apologies to you.

I happen to agree with Joe on almost everything, but I think he misunderstood Sal in the video. The least I can do, after all of Joe's help, is to attempt to clear up a mistake. You see, I owe Joe a great deal. Last summer, after becoming totally frustrated at not being able to sharpen an edge, I made a commitment to myself to learn. Thank goodness I found Joe's posts (especially about the BM 710 technique) and sharpening FAQ. I now keep a copy of them with my sharpeners. I sharpen the same as him, because I took it upon myself to try his suggestions and see for myself. Without Joe's info, I would still be getting frustrated because 19 out of 20 sharpenings resulted in duller edges.

Spyderco doesn't recommend doing the 20 followed by the 15 and stopping at that point, which I think is what Joe believes they suggest. In the video, Sal says that if the 20 doesn't get it sharp, go to the 15 to thin out the blade. He doesn't specifically say to then come back to the 20 to finish the edge. This is where I believe the confusion comes from. On page 6 of the 204 instruction booklet, it says to use the 30 if the 40 "failed to produce the desired results". Then it says,

"Always follow with a 40 [degree] angle..."

Heck, page 6 also has pictures to show why to follow with a 40, just like your pictures here, and just like what Joe does.

I dffer with Spyderco, when it comes to switching to alternating strokes on the back bevel. I'm the same as Joe when it comes to doing one side to raise a burr before going to the other. I think Spyderco's suggestion can lead to a more symetrical grind when comparing the two sides to each other, but takng one side to a burr, then the other, well, it's much simpler to detect the burr that way. Following Spyderco's method, I have trouble spotting the burr and take off more steel than is necessary. Once I finish with the back bevel and move to the primary edge, then I do use alternating strokes.

By the way, Sergiusz, you don't have to use "bench mode" to keep the tips pointed. What I do is, when I'm on the corners of the stones, I quit about 3cm short of the tip. Then, when I'm using the flats, I go all the way to the tip, but don't let it come off the edge of the stone. I stop when the very tip of the blade is in the middle of the flat. The trick is to simply not drag the tip off of the edge of the stone. Try this, it will give you a very pointed tip and you won't have to change the setup to "bench mode" to finish the tip. I heard about this from someone here, probably Joe, and now I don't round off the tips anymore.

[This message has been edited by Codeman (edited 04-29-2000).]
 
Thanks Codeman. I'm not certain where I got the idea that Sal was suggesting to do the 20 degree bevel first, then the 15-degree "backbevel". But I am sure I read it (I didn't see the video) -- either in a posting from Sal here, or in the written instructions for the Sharpmaker. I didn't keep the instructions, can anyone check? Maybe I imagined the whole thing.

Joe
 
Page 6 of the Model 204 instructions states, after explaining how and why the Back Bevel (30 degree angle) is done, to "always follow with 40 degree angle sharpening..."

Then it shows the same in pictures. I just got this item and have tried it out on my Benchmade 705. I need to keep practicing! Wish I had seen Codeman's suggestion before my first attempt.

[This message has been edited by RDaneel (edited 04-30-2000).]
 
Anytime, Joe. If I come across it, I'll let you know.

Welcome to BF, RDaneel! We all live and learn. By the way - I have a 705BT and it's the only knife that is always with me. I wouldn't want to chop a tree down with it, but for a always there utility knife, it can't be beat!



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Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988

AKTI Member #A000831
 
Joe - Probably my confusing explanations.

Basically IMO a knife with a thin back bevel will cut more effectively and sharpen faster.

If one wishes to take the time to back bevel a new knife, and then sharpen the edge to angle desired, this is certainly the best place to start from...assuming you have the time.

In the 204 training video, I mention doing some back-bevelling each time you sharpen.

This will maintain a back bevel and keep it from "thickening" if you started with a back bevel from the beginning. If you didn't bother to back-bevel in the beginning, it will slowly create one without "taking the time" to do it at once. sorry for the confusion.

sal
 
I still have trouble detecting the burr. What's the best "trick" for doing this? Maybe I'm not raising enough of one. Sometimes, when I'm working on the 204 Sharpmaker, I can feel different resistances for the two side of the blade. Is the burr on the "easy side"? Thanks.

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Jay
 
JayBird, the burr is on the opposite side of the blade that you are sharpening. For example, if you are sharpening the left side of the blade, the burr will form on the right side.
The way I feel the burr is I lightly drag the blade on the back of my finger nail. If you get a burr, there will be some finger nail deposits on the edge.

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Check out my pics
 
I've recently gotten good enough I can easily feel the burr by running my fingernail from the spine of the knife toward the sharpened edge. When the burr appears you will feel it as your fingernail catches on it before falling off the sharpened edge of the knife.
Davy
 
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