Spyderco ARK Why No More Serrated ? Searched but did not find.

Wowbagger

Wowbagger

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I assume because so difficult to round the bend with the grinder ( seems like I read about that on the new Ayoob thread ) but I want to read the original ARK posts.
Secondly , if no serrations why are we still paying the high price ? ~ $90 seems high to me for a tiny FRN knife with no lock and no moving parts ? ! ?
e.g., I can get a UKPK for roughly that .
Will be moved to Spyderco forum but wanted a flag out here with the big dogs.
 
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For $90, spend just a little more and get a DM blade, he has a few models that are similar in size and you can pick handle material and he might even cut his wicked serrations in the edge for ya!
 
norcalAF said:
For $90, spend just a little more and get a DM blade, he has a few models that are similar in size and you can pick handle material and he might even cut his wicked serrations in the edge for ya!
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Thanks but I doubt he will be working with 2 mm thick hollow ground
AND
I do want to know what happened.

off topic I find it singular that the entire thread was moved; usually a title , sign , flag what ever you want to call it is left in the General Knife Discussion so people are linked to this location . . .

cue sound track to eerie sound of unseen spooky activity :

Oh well I am a gnat's hair away from buying ANOTHER Boker Credit Card Knife ; half the price , titanium liner , 440C blade ***1.38mm at the spine*** and made in America. Has the same basic very small size and blade shape I am after for a particular job at work. Even thinner blade stock. If I have to serrate it my self I may as well be paid to do it. If I am completely honest with myself I prefer a folder anyway.

So far I have serrated a 3 inch Holdout and a Double Agent cliped point (fixed blade) with Spyderedge like teeth. They are OK but I feel there are wilder skies than these and smaller and thinner would be better.
 
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Most Spydercos are discontinued due to lack of sales. I suspect the ARK is a niche product and could not support both serrated and plain edged versions. So they kept the one that sold the best. At least a version of it is still available. Put a course edge on it and it cut near as well as the serrated & be easier to maintain.
 
Wowbagger said:
...

Oh well I am a gnat's hair away from buying ANOTHER Boker Credit Card Knife ; half the price , titanium liner , 440C blade ***1.38mm at the spine*** and made in America. Has the same basic very small size and blade shape I am after for a particular job at work. Even thinner blade stock. If I have to serrate it my self I may as well be paid to do it. If I am completely honest with myself I prefer a folder anyway.

...
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If you think that DIY serrations and/or any 440C of any thickness is going to match the cutting performance of Spyderco's serrated H1 steel, you are mistaken. It sounds like your more interested in a folder anyway.

SharpBits said:
Most Spydercos are discontinued due to lack of sales. I suspect the ARK is a niche product and could not support both serrated and plain edged versions. So they kept the one that sold the best. At least a version of it is still available. Put a course edge on it and it cut near as well as the serrated & be easier to maintain.
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I agree with you on why many Spydercos are discontinued and that the ARK is a niche knife, but respectfully, that's about it. Many folks have found that PE H1 is notoriously soft at the edge, and especially as compared to SE H1. As far as maintenance goes, with a Sharpmaker, SE is every bit as easy to maintain as PE.
 
SE H1 is no harder than PE. Cutting the serrations is not enough to work harden the H1.* Performance comes from the the much thinner edge on the SE models and the much longer cutting edge. Thin the PE and put a course edge on it and it performs much better. There is a long thread about it over on the home forum at Spyderco.

Serrated sharpening has always been more difficult for me, despite following all the recommendations.


*From https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/06/24/h1-steel-how-it-works/ (Argue with Larrin Thomas PHD & Sandvik, not me)

"A pure grinding operation would not lead to work hardening, and if any significant work hardening was occurring they would likely see issues like warping of blades, etc. Superficial work hardening would mean the grinding operation is not working efficiently. Work hardening requires permanent deformation, the knife must be permanently bent, or the edge thinned, etc. through hammering, flexing, or other mode of deformation. "

"I was sent an analysis of H1 in a Spyderco Salt by Sandvik. They did not find an increase in hardness at the edge, in fact they found a decrease. "
 
Not arguing with anybody, especially the experts, but I and many other Spyderco users see it differently, based on experience with multiple knives and real world use.
 
My experience with multiple PE & SE H1 blades showed me that it is nothing special outside of corrosion resistance. My best performing H1 knife is an old Salt 1 that I thinned out as much as my KME would let me. Much thinner than stock. If you thin a PE to same thinness as the SE, you see a big jump in performance. It just proves geometry cuts. Stock PE H1 knives were too thick BTE in my opinion. So, what I am saying is that the improved performance of SE H1 knives is due to the superior thinness BTE and not at all due to hardness changes.

One longtime proponent of SE H1 over on the home Spyderco forum switched back to PE after he thinned out the blade and used a coarse edge. I followed what he did, so none of this is my idea.
 
Yeah, it's based on individual experience. Many long time proponents of SE didn't switch back, and some converted from PE to SE as well.
 
SharpBits said:
Circling back to the ARK, I also believe they should have kept only the serrated version on the market. For the purpose it was designed for, SE is the way to go.
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This was exactly what was sticking in my craw.
I just had in mind that cutting the serrations on the bend of the edge and then the tip was too much of a PITA for Spyderco compared with the straight or shallow curved edges.

Maybe Sal will visit and straighten me out.

I often see images in the forums of this ARK in the serrated being carried EDC but almost never the plain edge even though it is still in production ; that is sort of telling me the serrated was the one to keep if one had to go .

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP !
 
SharpBits said:
Put a course edge on it and it cut near as well as the serrated
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I know there is A LOT of love for coarse edges ; some times they even cut better or longer (((though The Science Of Sharp tends to cast a little doubt there))) .
I am NOT a fan .
Mostly they are far easier and faster to sharpen . . . I enjoy making pretty polished edges on the Edge Pro so I'm happy with them , time consuming and inferior or not .
And for some of my cuts at work :
I get a more professional / finished appearance with polished edge
 The knife glides through the material with less effort so I have more control with PE.
. . . and finally I enjoy the tactile feel of the polished edge over the kind of "" buzzy "" feel of coarse edges
boy did I go down a rat hole there !

E.g. , I even tested two identical Cold Steel Mini Hunters that I carried side by side on my belt or in pocket ; one reprofiled and polished edge , the other reprofiled coarse ( ~350 Shapton) and lightly stropped . I tried them for the same every day jobs at work . One thing that finally put me off was the coarse edge would pick up and hold corrugated card board fibers and glue where as the polished cut better and stayed cleaner.

That is some of what this one will be put to ; mostly tape and paper wrapped over foam or bubble wrap.
 
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