Spyderco Bench Stone

cziv

cziv

Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
10,038
Hey guys, I just got my ultra-fine Spyderco 8" x 3" bench stone - the one in the leather pouch. Anyone else have one? How do you like it?

I saw one video of a guy using it to put a mirror polish on his edge. Mine is a very aggressive cutter. I was shocked to raise a burr after about 7 or 8 passes. I think I'm going to use light pressure. Just enough to contact the stone. Does that sound right?

I did one of my folders XM-18 and it put a nice edge on it but not as sharp as the DMT xx-fine dia-fold. Huhmm wondering if I should have got it now. I think I was pressing down to har since the stone loadd up really quick and formed a burr really fast too.
 
Because of the hardness and density even light pressure is extreme with ceramics, pushing hard will chip the edge on harder steels and roll it on softer steels. It also does its fair amount of burnishing so pushing too hard and letting the stone load too much works against you. You will notice also that burrs form much easier and are harder to remove (especially with PM stainless), you can also round the edge like you would with a strop if you don't keep good control of your angle.

The surface texture of the UF hone is part of how it works and yes, it will feel rough/bumpy because of this. The type of sharpness you will yield off this stone will be similar to a stropped edge of similar abrasive size. I say a stropped edge because of its smooth sharpness over the diamonds more toothy sharpness. Your not going to see much of a scratch pattern change from XXF diamond to UF ceramic but with the ceramic you get a higher surface luster due to the burnishing over the diamond cut edge which shines from the sharply cut scratches.

I would also suggest lapping one side with a fine diamond hone to get even higher levels of finish. Note: buy a small one or use a cheap one because you will destroy the diamond hone doing this.
 
It's real easy to form a burr/wire edge on ceramics, of any grit. As you figured out, light pressure is important. The ceramic Spyderco hone will produce a completely different result than the EEF diamond. The diamond of the DMT will leave a toothier edge, just by virtue of how aggressively it cuts, even at that small particle size. The UF Spyderco, on the other hand, won't cut as aggressively, but should leave a higher polish than the EEF DMT. And the diamond won't leave as much of a burr, as the diamond simply scrubs it off, as opposed to a ceramic, which will more likely fold it over.
 
I have the 8x2 that comes in a plastic case. Actually, I have the "fine" stone, but have lapped one side to what I believe is an ultra-fine. While my sharpening talents don't really extend to the polished end of things, I have gotten a few hair-whittling edges from the lapped side of my stone - not quite "mirror" polished, but I was able to read numbers and letters easily when resting the bevel against a phonebook page - so pretty darn good. The best I can do with the factory "fine" side is popping armhairs and it will dryshave some stubble. These stones (fine and ultra-fine) are identical in composition and only differ in surface treatment. Break your ultra-fine in on a couple of knives and it'll improve quite a bit. Also, mine loaded up at first too, some of the streaks couldn't be removed even with a Scotchie. I now use a few drops of dish soap, a few drops of water and it has fantastic feedback and stays clean. Use the lightest possible pressure, despite their slick feel, they cut pretty quickly.
 
Thanks guys, I didn't ask but I was hoping that the UF stone would "break in." I have one side that cuts so fast it really loads up quick and puts a burr on fast too. :eek:

Funny thing - when I saw the stone get loaded up that quick, I turned it over to try some really soft strokes and felt no grit or grindy sounding feedback from the unusde side. It was like ubbing the edge along ice or a soapy pane of glass. I thought it would be double sided. If it's double sided then one of the sides doesn't work too good, if at all. :confused: Maybe it's already lapped knifenut?
 
I did a lot of homework before buying mine - both sides are the same composition - only the surface finishing at Spyderco will differentiate a fine from an ultra fine, or one side from the other. They will break in, they can be lapped smoother (or rougher). You could always use the rough side as a progression for the finer side? In any event it will break in somewhat, but these stones are as tough as they come - it won't happen quickly.

Mark one side with a Sharpie so you can tell them apart easily and use the thing, or send it back to Spyderco - pretty sure they'll be happy to send you a replacement.
 
HeavyHanded said:
I did a lot of homework before buying mine - both sides are the same composition - only the surface finishing at Spyderco will differentiate a fine from an ultra fine, or one side from the other. They will break in, they can be lapped smoother (or rougher). You could always use the rough side as a progression for the finer side? In any event it will break in somewhat, but these stones are as tough as they come - it won't happen quickly.

Mark one side with a Sharpie so you can tell them apart easily and use the thing, or send it back to Spyderco - pretty sure they'll be happy to send you a replacement.
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Thanks - I'll mark it - great idea but not sending it back, it's a keeper. :D
 
The different feel on each side could definitely be a good thing. You may just find it very useful. I have two Spyderco DoubleStuff hones, one of which I lapped (both sides) to flatten it. It's much smoother than the other one now, which bothered me initially. But, I soon figured out it's an even better polisher now. I essentially 'made' my own UF, like HH mentioned earlier, and it fits nicely in my sharpening scheme now.
 
After owning the Syderco UF Bench Stone for a day and polishing 4 knives, I've had to wash it twice due to the black build up of metal. All well and good - looks like new.

New observation - the stone BARELY cuts anmore. It was like two different grits after 2 scrubbings with Ajax and a soft bristle plastic brush.

Today, after it's 2nd scrubbing the knives (one was previously polished andf taken back for fine tuning) just slide across the surface. I've even applied greater pressure but nothing and the stone isn't loading up much. Just some skinny gray lines from the tips I think.

I must have done 30 passes over dulling - factory edge on my Military S30V and it came out sharper but just barely.

One interesting thing I should mention is that today this was the case 95% of the time but every so often I'd pick up the blade to check polishing and burring and found a righteous burr formed??? Otherwise no metal being removed at all.

I'm wondering if you guys have suggestions - I wondered if today I was moving too fast by comparison to he 1st day when I did my passes very slowly, trying to learn the stone's performance. Today it was very dismal in applying any finish to a Spuderco Resilience and a Military. One cheap steel and oone good steel.

Go figure huh? :D
 
If a burr is forming, metal is being removed. Keep in mind this stone is close to the upper limit of what can be engineered into a solid, man-made block - right up there with (or better than) a Swaty hone. I can only speak for what works in my use - light pressure, lubricant, check for burrs frequently and switch sides often. Allowing a largish burr to form is going to be problematic later - allow only a slight halo of a burr to form before switching sides. You should notice a marked reduction in grind pattern on your bevel from other stones. If you're coming off of a DMT EF the difference should be readily apparent. Also, due to the greater depth per abrasive scratch created by the diamond, more metal will have to be removed to completely "erase" the older grind pattern. A final bit that I swear by - when going to a finer stone, plan on raising and removing the burr twice to get a full polish (and sometimes three times). If you try to raise a solid continuous burr the entire length, especially coming off of a diamond hone, the burr will be large enough to cause trouble - better to raise a few smaller ones removing them as you go.
 
Thanks guys, all of my knives are pretty screamin sharp right now, but one will sacrifice a little metal today to check this new info out. My Military is the only folder that still shows some factory scratch pattern so I guess that'll be the one. :thumbup:
 
One last thing, getting a feel for a new stone, esp a fine one, don't be afraid to put a few marks on the bevel with your old Sharpie. Probably don't need to tell you, but its all too easy to round it off or increase the inclusive angle when using these polishing-grade stones.
 
HeavyHanded said:
One last thing, getting a feel for a new stone, esp a fine one, don't be afraid to put a few marks on the bevel with your old Sharpie. Probably don't need to tell you, but its all too easy to round it off or increase the inclusive angle when using these polishing-grade stones.
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Do you mean round off the apex of the edge by coming in too high or too low and hitting the shoulder? Thanks! :)
 
I mean coming in too high and rounding the apex or making the angle so large that it won't cut well even if the apex is well joined. There seems to be a tendency for folks to raise the spine as they feel for the apex when using the polishing-grade stones - better to use a Sharpie if you can't feel what's happening. Not saying this is what you have going on, but best to be aware that this is common. Feedback tends to diminish as grit count increases - one of the reasons I use a mix of dish soap and water, sometimes just a bit of foam squeezed from a sponge. Makes cleanup easier - the swarf doesn't get ground into the stone - no scrubbing, and increases feedback considerably IMO.

Good Luck
 
HeavyHanded said:
I mean coming in too high and rounding the apex or making the angle so large that it won't cut well even if the apex is well joined. There seems to be a tendency for folks to raise the spine as they feel for the apex when using the polishing-grade stones - better to use a Sharpie if you can't feel what's happening. Not saying this is what you have going on, but best to be aware that this is common. Feedback tends to diminish as grit count increases - one of the reasons I use a mix of dish soap and water, sometimes just a bit of foam squeezed from a sponge. Makes cleanup easier - the swarf doesn't get ground into the stone - no scrubbing, and increases feedback considerably IMO.

Good Luck
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Thanks for the tips & tricks HeavyHanded. This may be my problem. The first day, when the stone was really hissing it was great. Yesterday, no stone feedback & using my finger in feeling for a burr, the edge felt unusually round on both sides, so I'll try the water & soap trick and drop my angle a bit. We'll get her figured out! :thumbup:
 
I feel that one of the reasons it's so easy to raise a burr is because feedback from the stone is so small, it's virtually non-existent. This makes it very easy to sharpen at too high of an angle, pushing over any micro burr you might have had, or introducing a new one if excessive pressure (read: practically any) is used.
 
It's not easy to raise a burr with anymore. It's more of a polishing stone and takes the scratch pattern off from using higher grit stones very well. In fact, after getting shaving sharp on a DMT x-fine bench stone, I've got that good feedback in the stone again. Not so well for starting out with, even for a touch-up. I've had better luck using a slightly higher grit stone first and then the Spyderco UF last. That's my experience so far. :thumbup:
 
I really like the UF cziv. I used it on two straight razors the last weeks and like the results. For my knives it's now my goto stone. Either that, the XXF dmt or the UF sharpmaker rod. I bought this one because I really liked the UF rods and also because I wanted it for my str8's.
After using it for some time, I notice the high polish I can achieve with this in a very short time. I have even used it to get rid of a piece of factory grind on the bm 710 in M390. I could go to a polish with the stone on the benchmade. It's a recurve though, but I found I could finish the knife on the edge of the stone, much like you would on the UF rods. I used some pressure to do this.

Mostly I would go with light pressure too, but don't be afraid to use a shallow angle and some more pressure. Since there is a tendency to increase your sharpening angle the finer the grit (the edge V-plane gets 'rounder' after several grit progression because you're getting rid of the previous' stone grit pattern. therefore, you have to vary the angle a bit more to get to the extrem shoulder to get rid of those scratches and you have to go to the edge, therefore, you 'roll' a bit), I find that polishing with the uf and a sharper angle actually helps keep my edges acute.

It's a nice, large stone.
 
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