Spyderco Caly. Jr

H

_habit_

Joined
Oct 14, 2006
Messages
1,131
I was wondering what it might cost to get the scales replaced with carbon fiber or titanium, liners not being necessary as far as I'm concerned, or tapping for clip screws.

Here is a picture of the knife in question (bottom one, top is a Caly 3):

Caly-CalyJr.jpg


I was considering buying one, as I prefer the shape, aesthetically, to the Caly 3, but I don't like FRN much. I thought that if maybe I could get the scales changed on the Caly. Jr for less than the price of the Caly 3, it might be worth it.

Any estimate on what the price might be, STR?

Thanks.
 
More than the Caly III if I was to do it. I've done it. Many times in fact for that same knife but I've just got too much going on right now to even consider adding it to the stack here. I appreciate you asking but I can't take it on currently.

As for price though, I'd have to look but the last few I did were $200-$220 depending on several things. To convert without liners, something I've never done BTW, I imagine it would still be every bit of $160-$170 since I have to make a custom spring holder/rear spacer to replace the one in there now that is ruined once I take it apart. I should say "cut it apart" because thats how I have to do it.. That new spring holder/spacer is the hardest part about the entire job actually and the majority of the cost because it has to be just right to work properly, not to forget the fact that the holes have to be redrilled in the blade and lock bar as well as new hardware acquired to set it all up. New holes in a hardened blade and lock bar mean carbides which ain't cheap either. Overall those type lockback jobs were among the most challenging I ever did. Most turned out quite nice though.

I am just guessing but I'd have to say I'm booked currently for bigger jobs into next year already so right now I just can't take on anymore that large. All I'm planning to do the rest of the year besides the stuff thats here right now is pocket clips, Wave mods and other smaller jobs like that which I can get in and out of here in relatively quick order.

Thanks again. Please don't let this discourage you. I am really pleased that so many seek me out but I can only do so much and since most of the stuff sent to me for work is someones EDC knife I hate having them here a week let alone the four months or more some of them camp out here. Right now it would be more like five months though.

STR
 
$200 to make carbon fiber scales to replace the FRN? Whoo that's some big money!

Perhaps if I can find an amateur knife modder I might give them a try.


Thanks for the quick reply
 
Its not just a matter of making new scales for the folder. Its an FRN folder with an FRN spring holder. That spring is set at a very specific angle and height and has to be dead on to work so the blade can be trusted. Even after getting the angle correct the new spacer has to be put in there in the same way the old one was positioned in order to insure the spring tension is correct so the point of the blade snaps shut and stays down during carry. Messing with a lock back is not the kind of job I'd want someone inexperienced trying to do. If the spring is set wrong it could very easily make the lock unreliable in use as well as enable the point to stick up in the pocket making it dangerous. Lock backs are different animals than a typical frame lock or liner lock that is much easier to do by comparison. I know it took me a lot of trial and error to get to a level of comfort reworking lock back style folders. They are not for the faint at heart. I've bailed out more than a handful of other pimpers that tried and failed to do one too. Not that I'm some guru or anything but they are a whole different league of work than a typical liner to frame lock conversion. Maybe I'm just stubborn.

If it were just a matter of doing the scales it would not be that much but truth be told I quit offering scale replacements as stand alone items except on larger jobs like this. I get too much going on at times and had to limit what I do. I quit working on fixed blades and slip joints among other things too. I don't know what you expected for labor and parts to do a job like that but considering the fact that $200 doesn't buy what it did last time I did those and seemingly buys about half that now I would not expect much less from anyone else to tackle a lockback folder.

By the way, not all carbon fiber is equal. Its about as expensive as titanium but you want to be sure they use good quality. Several times I've tried to save money and ended up finding voids and air bubbles in the CF after finishing and its very frustrating to get all the way to the finish line only to have to redo it due to bad material.

STR
 
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STR said:
Its not just a matter of making new scales for the folder. Its an FRN folder with an FRN spring holder. That spring is set at a very specific angle and height and has to be dead on to work so the blade can be trusted. Even after getting the angle correct the new spacer has to be put in there in the same way the old one was positioned in order to insure the spring tension is correct so the point of the blade snaps shut and stays down during carry. Messing with a lock back is not the kind of job I'd want someone inexperienced trying to do. If the spring is set wrong it could very easily make the lock unreliable in use as well as enable the point to stick up in the pocket making it dangerous. Lock backs are different animals than a typical frame lock or liner lock that is much easier to do by comparison. I know it took me a lot of trial and error to get to a level of comfort reworking lock back style folders. They are not for the faint at heart. I've bailed out more than a handful of other pimpers that tried and failed to do one too. Not that I'm some guru or anything but they are a whole different league of work than a typical liner to frame lock conversion. Maybe I'm just stubborn.

If it were just a matter of doing the scales it would not be that much but truth be told I quit offering scale replacements as stand alone items except on larger jobs like this. I get too much going on at times and had to limit what I do. I quit working on fixed blades and slip joints among other things too. I don't know what you expected for labor and parts to do a job like that but considering the fact that $200 doesn't buy what it did last time I did those and seemingly buys about half that now I would not expect much less from anyone else to tackle a lockback folder.

By the way, not all carbon fiber is equal. Its about as expensive as titanium but you want to be sure they use good quality. Several times I've tried to save money and ended up finding voids and air bubbles in the CF after finishing and its very frustrating to get all the way to the finish line only to have to redo it due to bad material.

STR
Click to expand...

Definitely a lot of good points in there. We aren't talking about slapping some scales on a fixed blade here. Like STR stated, there is a lot of inner workings to the knife. It may not be cheap, but considering there is no other way, not sure how bad it really is.
 
I had no idea there was so much complicated working within a knife. I assumed the scales were just sort of... walls; and all the important stuff was independent of them. Is it only lockbacks that are this complicated to change? Or is it all locking knives? I mean it does seem like on a frame lock, the non-locking side would just need an identical shape to before, maybe longer screws. Am I again mistaken?

Thanks for the enlightenment guys :o :D

P.S.: Just an odd thought, but could FRN scales be sanded down thin and flat, and then just new scales fitted on top of them, thus not involving inner workings, then longer screws work?
 
_habit_ said:
I had no idea there was so much complicated working within a knife. I assumed the scales were just sort of... walls; and all the important stuff was independent of them. Is it only lockbacks that are this complicated to change? Or is it all locking knives? I mean it does seem like on a frame lock, the non-locking side would just need an identical shape to before, maybe longer screws. Am I again mistaken?

Thanks for the enlightenment guys :o :D

P.S.: Just an odd thought, but could FRN scales be sanded down thin and flat, and then just new scales fitted on top of them, thus not involving inner workings, then longer screws work?
Click to expand...

Sanding FRN is a holy nightmare in that it melts rather than sands away. Its not easy to work with in that way really but even if it were I don't have the means to keep it flat uniformly so a scale would mount to it. If it were a model with G10 that already had a metal spring holder/rear spacer it would not be so complex or expensive but taking a FRN molded knife with a molded one piece spring holder and spacer and converting it to one made with quality metal parts is the difference we are speaking about aside from all the intricate inner positioning and angles that have to be duplicated and then transferred to the new holder and body scales.

There is more to it than just making what appears to be a copy. Its a bit much to get into but there are several areas that have to be dead on when you copy a lock as well as some areas that have to be adjusted to fit the same way after its made up. This is to fine tune it to the specific blade its mating up to. On a knife such as a lock back style, well, there are just so many things that can be off. If the spring holder is off in the back it can change not only the way the blade behaves both for reliability in use but also for spring strength and spring position to where if you get it wrong the blade may slap down on top the spring each time you close the blade causing it to ding the edge every time it slams shut. Then there is the lockbar or rocker arm position that has to be exact and if you were off on that a bit by even a couple microns it can be huge in a folder of that type causing the lockbar to stand up when it should be seated down in the notch to hold the blade securely. Needless to say if it stands up that means its not seating and not reliable for how well it is securing the blade. Other things are the pivot position, the proper thickness for the new spacer because if its over or under it can cause a bind on the pivot. Its just a lot of little things that all have to be taken into account each time you mess with something like this.

To a large degree its the same for frame and liner locks as they are technical in some aspects of the lock up that have to be spot on but as I have said many times, if liner lock folders had never been invented you would not see near as many knife makers making folders today as you do. There is a reason they stick with those type folders and frame locks. If we all had to make lock backs or button locks, lever locks, or some other type lock like the Axis or Ball type locks we'd see about 2/3rds less makers and manufacturers today. I've made lock backs from scratch and believe me I appreciate the guys doing this routinely a great deal more after doing some myself. I was fortunate in many ways in that I had the chance before making my own to see the inner workings of so many both good and bad lock back folders that were mailed to me over the years I've spent repairing them so the contrast stood out and I was able to make a few by seeing what worked and applying that to my own but I'm not looking forward to or planning on another for a while. I'll stick with frame locks. :D Seriously they are as technical as I want to mess with repeatedly and I feel I have a better more sellable product with those than I do my lock backs.

STR
 
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