Spyderco Calypso Jr with ZDP-189 review request

Gary W. Graley

Gary W. Graley

“Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Mar 2, 1999
Messages
27,749
Just checking to see if anyone has one of these in hand yet?
Mine is enroute ;) but wanted to hear from those that have
put theirs to use...
G2
 
We have sharpness in the house, arrived that way too, most Spyderco's do but this is above the rest ;)

I warrant that most will be quite pleased with the cutting ability of this knife.
Smallish blade, but one you'll find very useful in that the blade doesn't get in the way of it'self.

It push cuts so so so very easy with such a thin edge, did I mention it was sharp :eek:

The handle, while FRN, has a nice scaly grip, like dragon scales, handy
The colour may put some people off but it's a deep rich reddish burgundy.

specs'
Blade Steel: Laminated ZDP189
Blade Thickness: 1/8"
Clip: Black with Gold Spyderco Bug.
Handle: Material Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon
Length Blade: 2 7/8"
Length Closed: 4"
Length Cutting Edge: 2 1/2"
Length Overall: 6 3/4"
Weight: 1.9oz

My only pic is for the thong hole at the end of the handle, with the clip
position being at the pivot, placing a fob in the hole makes it so you can't
pull the knife out that way, BUT you can have a loop there to put around
your wrist for while in use, so in that respect it could be useful.

Sal, very nice sir, this may well be 'The' knife, but then, my wife's heard that
so many times now she even quit rolling her eyes ;)

This steel would be quite nice on the Military, ya think? :)

G2
 
Just got mine. I've always liked the gray FRN CalyJr., but this is a nice 'upgrade'.
I've always liked how the finger choil fits my hand perfectly.

First impressions:
The frn handle is identical to the gray VG10 version of the CalyJr, but in burgundy. I am a huge fan of the color due to its uniqueness.

Standard black clip with a gold spyderco 'tick': Not crazy about the clip - too much contrast. The black looks strange against the burgundy handle and steel blade. I may replace it with the bead blasted gray clip from my gray caly. Tip down only L/R.

Lock is solid and smooth and identical to the VG10 version.

Blade labeled "Spyderco" "ZDP189/420J2". "Japan" on opposite side.

Another gold 'tick' is on the blade just forward of the opening hole, and I do like the placement of this one.

The lamination line is clearly seen on the blade about 3/16" on one side and 1/4" on the other, so the 'bread' in the sandwich is not there to protect the 'meat' from corrosion, but to support the harder steel.

On a knife this small, which will never chop, I don't see the need for the bread, but I don't see a reason to not include it either. I suppose it could make a difference near the pivot and lock if ZDP is prone to corrosion.

The edge is spyderco factory sharp, but no surpise there.

I have read that the ZDP is around 63Rc, so it should hold an edge for a very long time, assuming it is tough enough and wear-resistant at that hardness. The only issue with steel that hard is sharpening, but the blade is very thin and flat ground so I don't anticipate any problems.

Overall, it should out-perform the old Caly, and it is much better looking (i.e. less boring due to the color and the gold bugs).

When we get the chance to start really using these, it will be very interesting how the new (to most of us) steel performs.

EDIT: BTW, mine has ZERO blade play. :)
 
There is a lot of the core exposed as klatmann indicated. I measured it with my 1-inch micrometer and it comes out a shade light of 1mm thick (I got .037-inch vs .039 for a mm). In the ricasso area where the blade is full thickness I get 3mm. So basically the core is 1/3 of the overall blade thickness.
 
How thick is it behind the edge? Is the blade ground flat all the way (or almost) to the edge? How does it compare with the VG-10 blades in this regard?
 
One of my other pet peeves is the notch before the edge starts, on a lot of the Spyderco models they avoid that, but this one has it and as I went to slice across a bag tonight it hung up on that notch, a pain, small but still a pain.
G2
 
I don't have the gray Caly with me but it looks exactly the same. Full flat grind with a microbevel. I measure about 3mm at the spine near the spydie hole, about two halfway down the spine length, and maybe 1/4-1/2 mm at the tip before the microbevel. One more thing, the corners of the spine are ground, so the spine looks like this (ignore the periods):
.._
/ . \

Which is exatly how it was done on the gray CalyJr.

The microbevel is a typical spydie-ground shaving-toothy edge ;) , and is no more than 1/2 mm from the edge. I do not know the angle, but it's typical of the old CalyJr and many other spydie-factory edges. I'd guess it's probably between 25 and 32 degrees, inclusive. (I suppose Sal could tell you exactly.) Doesn't really matter, 'cause you'll put your own mircobevel on it eventually...

Edit again (2): Okay, so halfway down the LENGTH of the blade, I measure:
2.30mm spine width (ignoring the spine corner relief i.e. this is the widest the blade-spine is halfway down the length)
1.24mm halfway between the spine and edge
~0.25mm at the edge just above the microbevel (tough to measure)

Edit3: If you take the measurements above, which are halfway down the length of the blade and subtract what I measured for the back-bevel thickness just above the edge bevel, you get 2.05mm at the spine and 0.99mm at the halfway point. If you round these to 2mm and 1mm, then you get zero at the edge. Adding 0.25 to these, you come up with my measurements above. What does this mean? It means that it is a true flat ground, but with 0.2 to 0.25 left at the edge. Then a 25-32 degree edge bevel is added to form the edge. This edge bevel can be easily changed to whatever you want, since it's only 0.5mm from the edge. If you need the exact number, post a question to Sal in this thread and I'm sure he will respond eventually.


Edit: Yep there's the typical semicircle notch between the sharpened edge and the kick. Easily 'adjusted' if you so desire. You could either make it a serration with a cone-file, or simply ease the transition to the sharpened edge. I used and sharpened my old caly enough that it almost dissapeared. (yeah, I like the CalyrJr. Design!) :cool:
 
I'm a little confused with the responses regarding edge bevel thickness. Some are saying very thin, others are saying typical Spyderco thickness. I have purchased three Spydercos, and they were all a little thick in the edge bevel for my taste. The pictures I have seen of this one seem to show a thinner edge than is typical for Spyderco. How does the edge bevel thickness compare to a typical Opinel or Victorinox, or a mini-Ritter RSK? I don't have a micrometer, so I can't get a feel for it when someone gives the actual measurement.
 
I hope one of you lucky guys with both VG10 and ZDP-189 C.Jrs will do some side-by-side edge retention work and post results. Be very interested in what you find, especially if chipping problems with ZDP-189.
 
lambertiana said:
I have purchased three Spydercos, and they were all a little thick in the edge bevel for my taste.
Click to expand...

Which ones?

How does the edge bevel thickness compare to a typical Opinel or Victorinox ....
Click to expand...

Opinels are ground to nothing, SAK's are ~0.010, I would be surprised if the Calypso's were that thin. The angle is likely more acute than SAK's though which typically run ~20.

-Cliff
 
Alright, using my very crude (not precise) measurements above (and not having a protractor handy), I get an estimated flat grind angle of 5.52 degrees inclusive (or 2.76 half-angle).

The micro/edge bevel is about 28.1 degrees inclusive (or 14.05 degrees half-angle.)

This makes sense because I know spyderco factory edge bevels are just under 30 degrees (to make sure you can easily touch them up on the sharpmaker).

However, slight variations in measurements could change the numbers buy up to a degree or so.

Anyway, I hope that helps, and for what it's worth, the grinds seem identical to those on the old gray Caly.
 
lambertiana said:
I'm a little confused with the responses regarding edge bevel thickness. Some are saying very thin, others are saying typical Spyderco thickness. I have purchased three Spydercos, and they were all a little thick in the edge bevel for my taste. The pictures I have seen of this one seem to show a thinner edge than is typical for Spyderco. How does the edge bevel thickness compare to a typical Opinel or Victorinox, or a mini-Ritter RSK? I don't have a micrometer, so I can't get a feel for it when someone gives the actual measurement.
Click to expand...

It's all in the definition of typical spyderco. I measured 0.25mm right above the edge bevel, which depends on the individual knife design and blade thickness etc. The micro/edge bevel angle is the 'typical spyderco' treatment, which is that it's just under 30 degrees inclusive, while the overall flat grind (which depends on blade design and the particular knife again) runs about 5-6 degrees inclusive.

Dog of War said:
I hope one of you lucky guys with both VG10 and ZDP-189 C.Jrs will do some side-by-side edge retention work and post results. Be very interested in what you find, especially if chipping problems with ZDP-189
Click to expand...

I would like to do this, but past experience with the VG10 model tells me that I would need a lot of cardboard/rope and a lot of time, neither of which I have at the moment. If the ZDP performs even better, it could be a grueling test.

If anyone does do this (I may eventually), I'd like to hear about it too.


Shmackey said:
Played with one of these today. Absurdly sharp.
Click to expand...

ALL NEW spyderco's I have seen are absurdly sharp and this new ZDP is no different. ;)
 
klattman said:
I would like to do this, but past experience with the VG10 model tells me that I would need a lot of cardboard/rope and a lot of time, neither of which I have at the moment. If the ZDP performs even better, it could be a grueling test.
Click to expand...
Kinda figured it might be hard to find volunteers. ;)

Now I'd be glad to contribute the cardboard, rope and time if you'd like to..... aw, never mind!
 
Cliff - I got my hands on a Starrett caliper, and measured the thickness at the edge bevel/primary grind shoulder of a number of my knives. The results, in inches, are:

Queen stockman, spey blade 0.012
Eye Brand moose stockman, main blade 0.012
Opinel #8 stainless 0.013
mini Ritter RSK 0.015
Buck Cabelas Alaskan Guide Crosslock 0.015
Victorinox Soldier 0.015
Kissing Crane large whittler, main blade 0.015
Buck Mayo 0.022
D2 mini-Grip 0.022
Calypso Jr, black FRN 0.025
S30V Native 0.030

All were measured the same way, and should give a good relative scale of some of my knives. These are all pretty much as they came from the factory, I have not changed the grind appreciably on any of them. The Mayo cuts better than the edge bevel thickness would indicate because of the deep hollow grind, and the Crosslock cuts like nobody's business. Note how much thicker the Calypso Jr and Native edge bevels are.

For what it's worth, the pictures that Vassili posted of his ZDP-189 Calypso Jr show a significantly finer edge bevel than my Calypso Jr has.

In case you haven't noticed, I have a thing about edge bevel thickness in small utility blades. I have convexed a number of my blades.
 
FWIW, I've been cutting a lot of cardboard and wood, and it still shaves arm hair above the skin. The only other production knife that I've had do this is a straight razor! I have steeled it once, and it came right back to NIB sharpness.
 
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