Spyderco D'Allara improvements?

[Sal Glesser]

I didn't want to hijack Cliff's thread on the D'Allara for the info I'm seeking, so I started a new one. There were a few comments made that indicated possible improvement is needed. Such as the dislike of the "sharpening choil".

Cliff, as long as you've got one, I would be interested in your dislikes as well.

We've made many changes and refinements to our designs based on intelligent feedback from knife "afi's" (aficianados) on the forums.

In an effort to constantly improve our design concepts, I would be interested to know how many like or do not like the "sharpening choil" on the D'Allara, and why?

The D'Allara mold has been modified 4 times, the clip tooling has been changed 3 times, the skeletonized liner has been changed twice, The blade has been modified 3 times......expensive modifications, all in an effort to develop the design concept to its most refined optimum performance level.

We owe it to our customers (ELUs) and to John D'Allara to make the model as good as is possible.

What would you do to improve it?

sal

 

[db]

Sal I don't have one but I also dislike sharpening choils and it's one of the things I look at when deciding on buying the knife. It's not a deal breaker on it's own but it is one of the factors.

 

[Vivi]

Holding the D'allara I reviewed in my hand, here are some things that come to my mind...

1. The hollow grind is well done for this type of grind, but it looks like it could go a few milimeters higher. While there are already many flatground Spyderco models, I'd personally prefer a full flat grind on the D'allara.

2. With the choil issue I'd have the end of the tang drop down a few milimeters and simply have the grind meet up with it, similar to how you've down with Enduras and Dragonfly models.

3. Extend and drop down the portion of the grip where the index finger lies. This would alleviate the problem (That I don't mind myself) with having the corner of tang exposed when the knife is folded and would make a more secure, comfortable grip I'd imagine.

4. The smooth section of the FRN grips is set too low to be useful for me despite how wide the knife frame is. From what I can see it was put there for heavy gripping so your fingertips aren't uncomfortable on the 3D FRN texture, but when gripped the knife hard my fingertips settle just above this area. I'd either modify its size and position or simply remove it.

5. What steel are the liners made of? I ask this because I just noticed while examining the knife right now that there appears to be a tiny area of rust on one of the liners on the spine area. With further regard to the spine, I'd like to see the backspacer, liners and scales all sit flush with eachother instead of the FRN being approx. 1 milimeter above the rest.

That's all I can think of. This knife is incredibly well-designed as it is, I think it outclasses the Benchmade Griptilian in nearly every aspect except ease of lock manipulation and it's heavier. Neither is an issue for me, I actually prefer the weight, but the freely rotating bearing is inheritly more difficult to operate than the Axis lock system, which pushes some people away from your BB designs. This is probably my favorite FRN Spyderco I've used out of the Enduras / Delicas, Native and Dragonfly.

 

[Steven Andrews]

Elongate the ball bearing, flatten the ends and add a grippy surface.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

1. The hollow grind is well done for this type of grind, but it looks like it could go a few milimeters higher. While there are already many flatground Spyderco models, I'd personally prefer a full flat grind on the D'allara.

I don't think I have seen a hollow grind on that type of knife that I like ideally. I prefer hollow grinds on much thinner and more focused knives like the Jess Horn. On knives of this style I would agree with a higher flat grind as a better balance of cutting ability/durability. Hollow grinds when done close to the level of durability tend to leave the edge prone to snap failures because they don't offer the support of flat grinds.

With the choil issue I'd have the end of the tang drop down a few milimeters and simply have the grind meet up with it, similar to how you've down with Enduras and Dragonfly models.

Yes, this knife has a really short choil which isn't useful as a grip position because it is too narrow. If the handle/guard was extended forward this would allow a more forward position and as well stabilize the pivot further because there would be more steel ahead of the pivot on the blade.

The main concern for me is the serrations. When I first gave this to my brother it came back shortly with one of the large scallops chipped and a tooth broken. I assumed he had been cutting metal (carpenter). However recently I cut up some plastic siding (full force cutting) and cracked off four of the teeth losing about half a mm and put a visble chip in two of the large scallops.

Of course it is always the chance that this blade is a little less than optimal, however comparing the serrations to the Endura/Delica, the D'Allara points are much longer (or the scallops deeper - same thing obviously). The angle and it is about 15 included on the D'Allara and 23 on the Delica SE. The Delica is much more robust and I think more suited to a tradesmen type knife.

There is also an aesthetic issue with the swedge. On mine it is a little off, on one side it doesn't go all the way to the point. Now this has little influence in use, but it can be a visual problem for some users and if you look down at the tip from the spine it makes the tip look skewed.

In regards to the lock, it is solid on this one, however hard to operate with gloves on. The sides could be cross hatched to give better grip or perhaps even a small extension from the side of the ball to be a focus point for the finger tips.

With the handle it is generally very solid, the inside of the slabs, the liners could be more rounded. The front of the grip where it meets the blade could also be tapered basically on a 45. On some cutting where the blade is held sideways, the thumb is pressed into the blade in this region and lies over the blade/handle juncture and this ridge is a high pressure point. Nothing major as it is already rounded, but a taper would be a slight improvement.

-Cliff

 

[Slim to None]

1. The hollow grind is well done for this type of grind, but it looks like it could go a few milimeters higher. While there are already many flatground Spyderco models, I'd personally prefer a full flat grind on the D'allara.

I don't know the reasoning behind the hollow grind whether it's for variety's sake or something more functional, and functionally I don't really have any complaints with it. That said, a full flat grind would be awesome.

My only other niggling thought, too small of a concern to even be classified as a worry, concerns the amount of steel around the pivot, both on the blade and the liner. I'm sure functionally it's fine but it seems like a small amount given the size of the blade and handle.

Other than that, more steel choices or frn colors would be much appreciated. I really like this knife and love the work spyderco is doing. I've slowly traded away all my non spydie folders, and thats gotta count for something.

 

[Vivi]

The steel I'm content with, VG-10 is probably my favorite steel from the "higher-end" spectrum of steels like S30V, 154CM etc. I agree with the colors though, I'd love to see this in Yojimbo blue. I like the black but I just think blue would go well with this particular model for some reason.

With hollow grinds some tasks are a little more difficult to perform, ones where you're holding the edge nearly parallel to a surface and making push cuts, like peeling carrots or making wood shavings. This is the only time hollow grinds ever bother me, and I don't see much advantadge to them over flat grounds overall. I agree with cliff that hollow grinds make more since on something the size of a Dragonfly, Caly Jr or the Jess Horn. On a beefier model, flat grind just makes more sense to me. If they released a flat ground D'allara I'd have to buy me at least one, with how enjoyable this knife is to use.

 

[Chin Mullet]

I like the knife. I think the sharpening choil is good sometimes and bad other times. It makes sharpening the back of the blade easier, but it also sometimes catches on stuff while cutting. If I had my choice I would rather not have a sharpening choil.

The knife is fat, and I vote on keeping the full steel liners but making the scales a bit thinner. Not so much 3D.

I think it's really nice Sal that you ask what we think. That is really awesome and goes a long way with the ELU like me. Just you asking questions like that make me keep buying your knives. :thumbup:

 

[Vivi]

I really like the width and 3D shape of the scales. It's one of the reasons I like this so much over other folders. Folders like this, the Manix and Buck 110's offer handles that feel sized for my hand, as opposed to Delica's and such.

 

[sodak]

I've got one coming, will post when I get and use it. One thing that I can say, I **love** VG 10. If you ever offer this in S30V, *please* don't drop the VG 10. Please!

 

[Buzzbait]

I'm afraid that I don't have much to add. I saw the sharpening choil and knew that the knife wasn't for me. I don't mind a sharpening choil on a gents knife, that won't see much hard use, but I definitely don't like them on my working knives.

Aesthetically, the D'Allara isn't bad. I'm not normally a huge hollow grind fan, but when actually done properly (think Dozier hunting knives), they're fine with me. The drop at the tip of the blade is a little funky looking though, and may turn people off. Not as nice looking as the great Spyderco leaf shaped blades.

I do love certain things about the knife. The lock looks very well done, and I like the blade length very much. I love folders with 3" to 3 1/2" blades. Perfect blade length for a working knife. The D'allara definitely has more going for it than against it. It's just a bit of a departure from what I'm used to seeing from Spyderco.

 

[LG&M]

Can you make it with out the hole in the blade? (joke) I would like to see a flat grind also. I have been thinking about the choil I could go ether way on that.

 

[rnhood]

I will echo the comments on the release ball. It can be difficult to work at times, especially with gloves on. I favor elongating it or, crosshatching the surface to increase it's tension. Or, changing it in some manner so as to make release easier under differing conditions.

If possible, I would also like to see slightly less overall width to make it a bit more pocket friendly. At first glance I want to say bring the hole closer to the handle and, reduce the hole size. But, the more I think about it, the more I realize that the current design allows for the utter ease of blade deployment - and even with gloves on. Frankly, I really like the larger holes in some of the Spydercos, the D'Allara included. I wish all Spydies opened as easily as this one. So, if the width can be reduced just a shade then fine, otherwise it's fine as it is.

The size of this knife (handle and blade length) is about right. Lets not contemplate making it smaller.

 

[jdub4294]

blade has printed in black raised ink:
Solingen
rostfrei
EIKASA [this is a diamond shaped logo
spezial
ohlschiff

the blades has a silver foil sticker:
Solingen
Pofiline
-HANDGEARBEITET
-EDELSTAHL
-ROSTFREI

the blade extends visibly through the black matte plastic (i think) handle with three round bolts

very nice set in attache case with amazing assortment

 

[Sal Glesser]

I'd like to keep the discussion going. Some info is necessary.

Vivi,

The smoothed out portion of the handle had nothing to do with the finger location. When we finished the 2nd mold change, we noticed that the clip pressure on the texture was far too aggressive and tore the pocket. the smooth area was for the clip, not the fingers.

Many have suggested elongation of the ball (football shape) and adding texture;

While the ball may be a bit difficult to unlock for some, it is just about impossible to accidentally unlock, important in this design.

I believe if you think about it more, you will realize that the ball rotates 360 degree.. changing the shape of the ball means that it will twist in the chamber. Adding texture means that texture will end up in the chamber as the ball rotates removing the smoothness of the rotation.

I think the smaller ball and the ball cage for unlocking (as is being done on the P'Kal) will more successfully handle the unlocking issue. But not for this current model.

I do not think that making the ball a shape other than round can work in the current invention simply because the ball rotates 360 degrees inthe chamber.

sal

 

[Artfully Martial]

I only had one serious complaint about the d`allara I had (for which I sold it in a week) and that's that it's way, way too big when closed. It kind of makes its folding self defeating...it doesn't really lose any of its dimensions when "closed," it just makes it twice as wide instead of twice as long.

Case in point, I want a mini d`allara. It's too bad I had to sell mine, because I was otherwise extremely pleased with it.

 

[rnhood]

Another idea might be to change the ball to a double button system (button on each side). Press the button with the thumb and forefinger to release the blade. To aid in preventiing the accidental release of the blade, the button would be indented slightly and, both sides would have to be pushed just like in the current ball system where it takes two fingers to reliablly release it.

If the ball is to remain, and it's not a bad system by any means, I believe it needs some attention even if only milling out more of the immediately surrounding handle area to allow a little better grip.

There again, why does the ball need to rotate? Seems like texturing the ends and fixing the ball in place would not necessarily compromise the smoothness of operation. But I digress...

One last point, I assume the steel spline will remain on the butt of the knife. This allows using the knife butt for breaking glass. I think this is necessary on a rescue type knife.

 

[Sal Glesser]

The most recent version of the D'Allara handle is in the drop point version. It is much thinner than the original version and the ball access opening was enlarged quite a bit. It is much easier to access the ball. How many of you are referring to this most recent version?

sal

 

[rnhood]

Since I am not familiar with there being two models, I have to assume this is the latest since I only purchased it several months ago. A very comfortable grip and, extremely easy to open.

A closer look at the ball release. It's not quite as easy as the Axis lock in my opinion - can be a bit difficult to operate with gloves.

The width which draws some criticism.

The rather outstanding clip.

 

[Vivi]

I'd like to keep the discussion going. Some info is necessary.

Vivi,

The smoothed out portion of the handle had nothing to do with the finger location. When we finished the 2nd mold change, we noticed that the clip pressure on the texture was far too aggressive and tore the pocket. the smooth area was for the clip, not the fingers.

Many have suggested elongation of the ball (football shape) and adding texture;

While the ball may be a bit difficult to unlock for some, it is just about impossible to accidentally unlock, important in this design.

I believe if you think about it more, you will realize that the ball rotates 360 degree.. changing the shape of the ball means that it will twist in the chamber. Adding texture means that texture will end up in the chamber as the ball rotates removing the smoothness of the rotation.

I think the smaller ball and the ball cage for unlocking (as is being done on the P'Kal) will more successfully handle the unlocking issue. But not for this current model.

I do not think that making the ball a shape other than round can work in the current invention simply because the ball rotates 360 degrees inthe chamber.

sal

Thanks for the response Mr. Glesser.

The smooth area makes sense how you described, I thought it was in place to remove hotspots for the fingertips. I don't use clips myself so I have no comment on the friction issue, my clip was removed when I received the knife.

I too was wondering at some of the lock comments. The ball rotates freely, meaning there would have to be extensive design changes if some of the suggestions were implemented, such as a more oval shape and possibly with the texturing. The lock works just fine for me, though I think with the Axis lock you can operate it with one hand and less force. I've only used a Griptilian for a few minutes so I'm not positive. I like the ball lock though and I'm content with how it is. Lock release has never been an issue with me except for liner / frame locks, which I conciously stay away from. Your lockbacks, even without the dent, have served me well.