spyderco endura ffg in zdp189???

L

lonestar1979

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Mar 2, 2014
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Hello,i am not satisfied with my endura in vg10and am thinking about ordering one in zdp189!Please give me any info on this specific knife and steel,and knife will be used for cutting,period.Also theres an endura model in something hap..laminated blade.Which one is better performing knife?I am planing to thin out this knife,fully regrind it.Any info is welcome!Ihad calypso jr in zdp long time ago and it was straight razor.thank you
 
Zdp-189 is a hard steel I have several spydercos in this steel.

The caly 3.5 I have is easier to thin because it's 420 with a zdp-189 core.

I've thinned all my zdp-189 knives . I suggest a belt sander to be honest . I've used stones and it takes awhile .

Personally the stretch and caly seem to be a thinner stock and seem to cut better than the enduras.

The dragonfly in zdp189 is fun to thin and don't let the small size fool you that knife can cut with the best of them .
 
I have belt sander,and that's what I use,on stones it takes forever....Just touch up my knives on stones and sharpmaker now,reprofiling and regrinding is done on 1x30 and is 10x easier.Is this steel easy to touchup on sharpmaker?does it chip with normal edc and food prep use?It is mostly going to be used for food prep when Im on the road.
 
My next Spyderco blade is probably going to be an Endura FFG also. I'd like to have a knife that size. Or maybe a lightweight Manix in S110V.

I've got a Delica FFG in ZDP-189. It's a great knife. I've thinned the blade down to somewhere in the 11 degrees per side range. It cuts quite well. But I still want to thin it out more. So far I've done it all on DMT plates. It's been a bit of a learning experience.

Brian.
 
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I really like the VG-10 Spyderco knives. They require a bit more maintenance to keep the edge nice. The ZDP-189 offering in the same knives are good too once you get the edge right. Which takes some work. But all in all I prefer the VG-10.
 
No one has mentioned it yet so I suppose I will. ZDP-189 is not as rust resistant as some other stainless steels. Wipe it clean with every use. Especially acids or other caustic substances like bleach, even if it's diluted bleach. I like to wipe all my blades with 70% alcohol after use. If dirty I wash them with soap and water then wipe with alcohol prep pads.
 
lonestar1979 said:
I have belt sander,and that's what I use,on stones it takes forever....Just touch up my knives on stones and sharpmaker now,reprofiling and regrinding is done on 1x30 and is 10x easier.Is this steel easy to touchup on sharpmaker?does it chip with normal edc and food prep use?It is mostly going to be used for food prep when Im on the road.
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I've never had any troubles with zdp-189. I've used your cheap Waterstones (king) to shaptons. Diamonds ,to sic to even an India stone .

Only thing I wouldn't use on zdp is Arkansas stones .As far as the sharpmaker goes I have the benchstones as well as a couple of rods from my sharpmaker . The brown stones alone take zdp to an insanely sharp edge. The thing with zdp-189 is to get the crazy sharpness known for the steels it takes a super light touch when finishing . Now I take a sharpmaker rod ,on the flat . I hold my stray with index and thumb only and only apply enough pressure to control the angle .

Under normal use I've never had zdp chip. Now I took an endura to >10dps with a 325 grit finish and chipped the blade on thick copper wire . That was my fault it was the knife I took to work that day.
 
OP,

When I started out with VG10, I had so much trouble getting it sharp to the level I enjoy, which means the knife should shave dry comfortably.
I was thinking VG10 with all the high praise might not be suitable.

Being skeptical, I gave it another try. This time it worked much better. In the meantime, because of the difficulty, my skill also somewhat improved. However, I am sure that particular batch is worse, because after I managed the second time, going back to the first one, it still as bad.

So I'd suggest not to give VG10 up, but of course usage also important to consider. My use is light, being urban dweller & office worker.

I recently just picked up E4 ZDP and just finished reprofiling to 30° inclusive. Using DMT, it takes about 2x longer than VG10. The scratch pattern is much smoother with same grit. For example, using DMT C, the finish is closer to DMT F on VG10, or 8Cr. After reprofiling, it achieved shaving smooth so I guess I like the steel, though it's still too early to judge as I just completed the work.

There's also a long thread on ZDP for you to see others experience:
https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=69788
Michael Christy YT compared ZDP and HAP40. A heavy user Surfingringi likes HAP40 a lot, and there's a lot of good performance feedback on it:
https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=69636

Hopefully this helps. If you get ZDP, make sure you have diamond or CBN to sharpen.

Edit to add:
Being not very stainless, ZDP might not be best for food preparation.
Using VG10, I touched plate & rolled the edge a bit. Few minutes on DMT EEF and Spyderco UF, it is back to full sharpness..
Also some experts user friendly reminded me of the potential chipping (again, depends on usage), but 40° or microbevel can help here.
 
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I have an old E4 that Tom Klein reground years ago, way before he had a makers mark. It cuts like a laser and is easy to resharpen.
I got a newer on and dud my own work with an eec DMT, and while not as thin as Tom's work, it is a vast improvement over factory.
I touch them up with shapton glass and EF and eef dmt. I like the vg10 models but z d p 189 was my first foray into super steels and I have good luck with it for light etc usage.
Russ
 
I'd caution about going too thin with ZDP-189. I have a Kershaw Leek in ZDP, and thinned the edge quite a lot on a DMT Duo-Sharp 8" bench hone with an Aligner guide clamp, immediately after which I managed to break off about 1/16" of the pointy & newly-thinner tip on a firm strop. The tip dug into the strop and snapped off as easily as the lead on a freshly sharpened pencil. Speaks to the inherent brittleness of a steel hardened well in the 60s HRC. It might've already been cracked or chipped following the regrinding to thinner geometry; but, that also highlights the risks of going too thin with uber-hard high-carbon steels. On the upside, I did repair it by regrinding the tip down from the spine, using a 120-grit alumina-zirconia 3" x 21" sander belt cut and laid flat on a board with adhesive, using tip-trailing strokes. That method worked very well & fast, taking only about ~20 minutes to finish it up.

Here are some pics of the damage. The 3rd pic shows the cross-sectional geometry of the snapped tip pretty clearly. I didn't measure the angle, but I'd assume it's at least sub-25° inclusive (EDIT: maybe it's not so thin; see my later post). The very last pic is after it was repaired on the alumina-zirconia belt:


David
 
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Chris "Anagarika";16104130 said:
David,

Thank you for warning and sharing your experience.
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:thumbup:
You're welcome Chris.

I 'unscientifically' measured an approximate angle of my damaged tip by laying an adjustable protractor over the image in the previously posted picture of it's tip cross-section. Curiously, it seems to be nearer to 30° inclusive than I assumed; maybe down to 28° or so. If so, that might even be a little more foreboding about going too thin with this steel.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
:thumbup:
You're welcome Chris.

I 'unscientifically' measured an approximate angle of my damaged tip by laying an adjustable protractor over the image in the previously posted picture of it's tip cross-section. Curiously, it seems to be nearer to 30° inclusive than I assumed; maybe down to 28° or so. If so, that might even be a little more foreboding about going too thin with this steel.


David
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It seems to be indeed 30° ish. There's a reason Luong said keep it at 40° inclusive. I guess it also depends on usage ...
 
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