Spyderco High-Performance Blade Steels

RamZar

RamZar

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The December 2014 Spyderco Byte has additional information on THE “PERFORMANCE” IN HIGH-PERFORMANCE BLADE STEELS. SEE WHAT SPYDERCO IS DOING IN 2015.


Carpenter® CTS® B70P

CTS B70P is a high-chromium air-hardening steel that is a powder metallurgy derivative of Carpenter’s CRB-7® alloy. It offers comparable corrosion resistance to 440C—long an industry standard—but with the advantages of enhanced wear resistance and increased hardness capability. The addition of molybdenum, vanadium, and niobium to this advanced alloy, in conjunction with the uniform carbide structure that results from the powder metallurgy process, greatly improve edge retention. Its alloy composition also enhances this steel’s grinding and polishing characteristics, making it an ideal material for high-performance knife blades.

Carbon 1.10%
Chromium 14.00%
Niobium 0.25%
Manganese 0.50%
Molybdenum 2.00%
Silicon 0.30%
Vanadium 1.00%

Crucible/Latrobe CPM 20CV

CPM 20CV contains the highest amount of chromium of any high-vanadium stainless steel currently available. It contains a large volume of extremely hard vanadium carbides that give it excellent wear resistance and edge-holding capability. At the same time, its 20.00% chromium content makes it extremely corrosion resistant and easy to polish. And because it is a powder metallurgy steel, these properties are enhanced through the benefits of a fine, uniform grain size and an extremely clean microstructure. The result is a superior steel that combines wear resistance, corrosion resistance, and toughness into a material that is tailor made for knife blades.

Carbon 1.90%
Chromium 20.00%
Tungsten 0.60%
Manganese 0.30%
Molybdenum 1.00%
Silicon 0.30%
Vanadium 4.00%

Damasteel® RWL-34

RWL-34 is a martensitic stainless steel produced by the Rapid Solidified Powder (RSP) process. A martensitic variant of the 420 stainless steel family, it combines a minimum of 13% chromium with molybdenum and vanadium to yield a corrosion-resistant steel that also has high hardenability and excellent grinding and polishing characteristics. Collectively, these qualities give it all the traits necessary in a high-performance knife steel.

Carbon 1.05%
Chromium 14.00%
Manganese 0.50%
Molybdenum 4.00%
Silicon 0.50%
Vanadium 0.20%

Carpenter Micro-Melt® Maxamet® Alloy

Maxamet is a high-alloy powder metallurgy tool steel that outperforms conventional tool steels and possesses many of the performance qualities of cemented carbide materials Its alloy composition features over two percent carbon and high amounts of vanadium, cobalt, and tungsten. The result is an ultra-high-performance tool steel that maintains good toughness, even at high hardness levels.

Carbon 2.15%
Chromium 4.75%
Sulfur 0.070%
Tungsten 13.00%
Manganese 0.30%
Cobalt 10.00%
Silicon 0.25%
Vanadium 6.00%

As metallurgical advances continue to yield steels that offer higher and higher levels of performance, you can count on Spyderco to make these materials available to you in our world-class knives. We remain committed to making our best even better. Spyderco anticipates using each one of these steels in our Mule Team series in 2015.
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I'm interested in this:
Carpenter Micro-Melt® Maxamet® Alloy

Be nice if SPyderco make a Temperance 2 style/sized knife with Vanadis 4 Extra. ;)
That is some really good stuff, and the performance of that steel based on some testing was nothing short of pure excellence.
 
Yes, the Maxamet looks interesting with that huge load of carbides. They almost didn't leave room for iron.

I can't figure out what it's advantage will be. Not stainless. Not as much wear resistance as other powder steels. It can't be all that tough. It will be fun to see how it works out.
 
I'm with Twindog, the Maxamet may have some potential.. then again, I wipe my ass with potential. I'm curious how similar the CPM 20CV will be to M390 or 204P.
 
Hmm. The rwl 34 intrigues me. I wonder if it's going to be straight up RWL 34 or a stainless damascus with RWL 34 and something else. If it's straight RWL 34, then eh, it's too close to CPM154 to really entice me. If it's going to be a stainless damascus, then I'll be all over it.

Maxamet, of course I'll be all over it.

20CV, I'll be on it if funds aren't a problem when it's released.

B70P, eh, I'll pass because I don't know anything about it at this point but it's billed as a more wear resistant 440C. Corrosion resistance isn't my primary concern.

Now when the 4V mule comes out, if it comes between my heating bill and the knife, I guess I'll have to wear a coat when I sleep, because I'm getting that blade.

My question is that Spyderco has been using VG10 for a long time with great success. Why two different mule blades with almost the same composition as VG10? Are they looking for a replacement for VG10?

VlvOREe.jpg
 
Yeah, with it being the same as CPM154, I know it'll be stainless. My question is if the guys at spyderco have something special in store and will offer a stainless damascus in the mule lineup, which would be outstanding. I'm trying to guess why they're coming out with two almost identical steels in the mule lineup in the same year. My hope is that they're going to do something different with a known steel.
 
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bodog said:
Yeah, with it being the same as CPM154, I know it'll be stainless. My question is if the guys at spyderco have something special in store and will offer a stainless damascus in the mule lineup, which would be outstanding. I'm trying to guess why they're coming out with two almost identical steels in the mule lineup in the same year. My hope is that they're going to do something different with a known steel.
Click to expand...

The steel Spyderco will be using is Damasteel® RWL-34 not RWL-34!

Damasteel RWL-34 is stainless and is comprised of proprietary mixtures of RWL-34 (similar to ATS-34) and PMC-27 (similar to Sandvik 12C27).
 
RevDevil said:
I'm interested in this:
Carpenter Micro-Melt® Maxamet® Alloy

Be nice if SPyderco make a Temperance 2 style/sized knife with Vanadis 4 Extra. ;)
That is some really good stuff, and the performance of that steel based on some testing was nothing short of pure excellence.
Click to expand...

I second this!
 
RamZar said:
The steel Spyderco will be using is Damasteel® RWL-34 not RWL-34!

Damasteel RWL-34 is stainless and is comprised of proprietary mixtures of RWL-34 (similar to ATS-34) and PMC-27 (similar to Sandvik 12C27).
Click to expand...

Damasteel RWL 34 is not damascus. The link you posted is what I'm hoping for, but what's listed by spyderco is not that. What spyderco listed is this and this only: http://usaknifemaker.com/rwl-34-stainless-steel-by-damasteel-140-thick-x-1-5-wide.html

While I'm hoping that it's the damascus you linked to, they only listed what I linked to. So again, I hope it's something special and not the Damasteel RWL 34 by itself.

Here's a link breaking it down by the UK distributor for damasteel:

http://www.barmond.com/damasteel-knife-making-steels.html

DAMASTEEL® / KNIFE MAKING STEELS

Barmond International is the UK distributor for Damasteel® stainless steel products produced by Damasteel AB in Sweden. The Damasteel patented process uses modern RSP steelmaking methods in the ancient art of making damascene steel which has been re-vitalised for the 21st century.



Damasteel produces four different steel types. Three are damascene materials and one plain steel [RWL34] without the pattern. The grades are specially designed for certain applications.


Austenitic Stainless Damascus Steel

Applications: Flatware Cutlery, Forks. Jewellery, Watch cases, Bracelets, Furniture fittings. Marine mountings. Outdoor ornaments. Bathroom mountings.

Properties: Soft. Non magnetic. Excellent corrosion resistance.



Hardenable Stainless Damascene Knife Steel

Applications: Knife blades. Flatware knives. Edge tools.

Properties: Hardenable up to 60 HRC, Stainless in hardened condition with Excellent edge retention.

Patterns: Vinland, Twist, Rose, Odin’s Eye , Grosse Rosen, Hakkapella, Heimskringla, Ladder, Munin



Damascene Barrel Steel

Stainless [431/416]

Applications: Firearm barrels and parts. Pistol parts.

Properties: Hardenable up to 50 HRC. Excellent toughness. Good maintainability. Corrosion resistant



Low Alloy [4140 / 4340]

Applications: Firearm barrels and parts for browning or blueing.

Properties: Hard-enable up to 55 HRC. Excellent toughness. Excellent forge-ability and forge weld-ability. No corrosion resistance.



RWL 34, Hardenable Stainless Knife Steel

Applications: Knife blades

Properties: Hard-enable up to 62 HRC, Stainless in hardened condition. Excellent edge strength. Magnetic.

Many different dimensions are available, in both flats and rounds. Examples are shown below the standard sizes for the hard-enable martensitic damascus steel for edge tools.
 
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I have a SOG Team Leader in 20CV and its a nice bit of steel.
I may offer it soon to make room for other additions.

IMG_1513.jpg

I dont think I will every get rid of my X42...
 
bodog said:
Damasteel RWL 34 is not damascus. The link you posted is what I'm hoping for, but what's listed by spyderco is not that. What spyderco listed is this and this only: http://usaknifemaker.com/rwl-34-stainless-steel-by-damasteel-140-thick-x-1-5-wide.html

While I'm hoping that it's the damascus you linked to, they only listed what I linked to. So again, I hope it's something special and not the Damasteel RWL 34 by itself.

Here's a link breaking it down by the UK distributor for damasteel:

http://www.barmond.com/damasteel-knife-making-steels.html

DAMASTEEL® / KNIFE MAKING STEELS

Barmond International is the UK distributor for Damasteel® stainless steel products produced by Damasteel AB in Sweden. The Damasteel patented process uses modern RSP steelmaking methods in the ancient art of making damascene steel which has been re-vitalised for the 21st century.



Damasteel produces four different steel types. Three are damascene materials and one plain steel [RWL34] without the pattern. The grades are specially designed for certain applications.


Austenitic Stainless Damascus Steel

Applications: Flatware Cutlery, Forks. Jewellery, Watch cases, Bracelets, Furniture fittings. Marine mountings. Outdoor ornaments. Bathroom mountings.

Properties: Soft. Non magnetic. Excellent corrosion resistance.



Hardenable Stainless Damascene Knife Steel

Applications: Knife blades. Flatware knives. Edge tools.

Properties: Hardenable up to 60 HRC, Stainless in hardened condition with Excellent edge retention.

Patterns: Vinland, Twist, Rose, Odin’s Eye , Grosse Rosen, Hakkapella, Heimskringla, Ladder, Munin



Damascene Barrel Steel

Stainless [431/416]

Applications: Firearm barrels and parts. Pistol parts.

Properties: Hardenable up to 50 HRC. Excellent toughness. Good maintainability. Corrosion resistant



Low Alloy [4140 / 4340]

Applications: Firearm barrels and parts for browning or blueing.

Properties: Hard-enable up to 55 HRC. Excellent toughness. Excellent forge-ability and forge weld-ability. No corrosion resistance.



RWL 34, Hardenable Stainless Knife Steel

Applications: Knife blades

Properties: Hard-enable up to 62 HRC, Stainless in hardened condition. Excellent edge strength. Magnetic.

Many different dimensions are available, in both flats and rounds. Examples are shown below the standard sizes for the hard-enable martensitic damascus steel for edge tools.
Click to expand...

If Spyderco is using the regular RWL-34 then it's nothing to shout about. Their CPM-S30V is already superior.
 
RamZar said:
If Spyderco is using the regular RWL-34 then it's nothing to shout about. Their CPM-S30V is already superior.
Click to expand...

That's why I say it's intriguing. Are they trying to find a replacement for VG10? Why else would they want to send out basically beta testers in steels that are so similar to what's already out there? To check out the difference in manufacturing processes like they did with PSF27? To find something cleaner and easier to work with? Cheaper? Like I said before, if it's straight up RWL34, then I probably won't buy one. I'm still curious, though. B70P sounds pretty much the same. I wonder of they're playing with different heat treat protocols behind the scenes. Since both of these steeps are basically the same, then they can perform a standard treat with one and an off the wall treat with another to see how they fare in the world outside of testing labs.
 
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RamZar said:
If Spyderco is using the regular RWL-34 then it's nothing to shout about. Their CPM-S30V is already superior.
Click to expand...

In what way? Have you used RWL-34 hardened to high HRC of 60+? I ask because in my experience RWL-34 outperforms my customs in S30V and S35VN. S35VN is an "upgrade to S30V" yet it is more like CPM-154 and RWL-34 in its characteristics for me in use.

In my opinion ERASTEEL, the manufacturer of RWL-34, takes exceptional care in their product and produce a steel that is very pure with no inclusions using their ASP process. For me, they pay a great deal of attention to making a pure product and that is what sets RWL-34 apart. The same with their DAMASTEEL and Nirtobe-77.

The ASP® process is a powder metallurgy rapid-solidification process, specifically designed to allow the production of high alloy content grades without the alloy segregation normally associated with slow solidification rates in ingot metallurgy. The ASP® process results in a microstructure with a uniform dispersion of very small carbides. This microstructure gives the ASP® grades improved toughness and grindability compared to conventionally produced versions of similar grades. The freedom from alloy segregation and carbide banding also gives the ASP® grades improved isotropy. This means the properties are more consistent between the longitudinal and transverse directions. The ASP® process also permits the design of higher alloy content grades, offering higher abrasion resistance, attainable hardness, and temper resistance (red hardness).
 
marthinus said:
In what way? Have you used RWL-34 hardened to high HRC of 60+? I ask because in my experience RWL-34 outperforms my customs in S30V and S35VN. S35VN is an "upgrade to S30V" yet it is more like CPM-154 and RWL-34 in its characteristics for me in use.

In my opinion ERASTEEL, the manufacturer of RWL-34, takes exceptional care in their product and produce a steel that is very pure with no inclusions using their ASP process. For me, they pay a great deal of attention to making a pure product and that is what sets RWL-34 apart. The same with their DAMASTEEL and Nirtobe-77.

The ASP® process is a powder metallurgy rapid-solidification process, specifically designed to allow the production of high alloy content grades without the alloy segregation normally associated with slow solidification rates in ingot metallurgy. The ASP® process results in a microstructure with a uniform dispersion of very small carbides. This microstructure gives the ASP® grades improved toughness and grindability compared to conventionally produced versions of similar grades. The freedom from alloy segregation and carbide banding also gives the ASP® grades improved isotropy. This means the properties are more consistent between the longitudinal and transverse directions. The ASP® process also permits the design of higher alloy content grades, offering higher abrasion resistance, attainable hardness, and temper resistance (red hardness).
Click to expand...

I wasn't implying that RWL-34 is a bad steel. I have RWL-34 on my favorite little flipper: Rod Olson Quick Flick. Another one I have is Brian Tighe Tighenee "Tighe Rod" Gold. However, both are customs.

In what way is your RWL-34 outperforming your CPM-30V?

Personally, the way I see the list of new high-performance steels by Spyderco only Maxamet stands out. The others are nice too but nothing to really shout about. Spyderco already has equivalents or better in its line. I don't know if it's a means to expound more variety of steel or go with more sources for equivalents based on availability.
 
bodog said:
That's why I say it's intriguing. Are they trying to find a replacement for VG10? Why else would they want to send out basically beta testers in steels that are so similar to what's already out there? To check out the difference in manufacturing processes like they did with PSF27? To find something cleaner and easier to work with? Cheaper? Like I said before, if it's straight up RWL34, then I probably won't buy one. I'm still curious, though. B70P sounds pretty much the same. I wonder of they're playing with different heat treat protocols behind the scenes. Since both of these steeps are basically the same, then they can perform a standard treat with one and an off the wall treat with another to see how they fare in the world outside of testing labs.
Click to expand...
Given the general reluctance of Japanese makers to work with "foreign" steels, and the fact that all Spyderco's VG-10 offerings are made there, I really doubt that RWL-34 or any other non-Japanese steel is being looked at as a replacement for VG-10. More likely to cater to their "afis" desire for "new and different" steels for use on models made in the USA, Europe, and/or Taiwan.
 
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