Spyderco native 5 (or any 3" Spyderco) length interpretation.

[vansman]

Hello all, I am about to be a proud owner of a new native 5 g10 s35vn!
Extremely happy about this knife, but shaky on the legal aspect.

I live in San Francisco, and there is a local ordinance that says that under certain conditions, you cannot have a blade length that is greater than OR EQUAL to 3" in length.

I don't plan on being stopped, have actually never been in this city, and I don't plan on doing anything weird, or being under the interpretation of the "dangerous weapons" clause, but I just want my bases covered in the event that I do run into an officer that just has it out for me.

The native 5 is technically under 3" in length, but when looking at videos of people measuring it, it can look like it is exactly 3", and if measured from some weird diagonal angle at the rearmost part of the choil down to the tip, it could potentially be a little bit above, or still look like it is under the limit.

I have read stories in forums where officers literally try to measure your blade in a way that can result in an arrest or confiscation, and I also don't know how the courts would measure it in the event that it ever even gets that far.

I can't afford a lawyer, and wouldn't even want to be in a situation where I'm dumping thousands of dollars just to fight a knife case, so I am wondering if people here know about 3" laws based on experience or research (seems to be a common theme in many municipalities).

So I guess my questions are:
- could anofficer measure it in the worst possible way and at least start the process of an arrest or write a ticket for a summons?

-if it were to ever go to court, would I be able to use the manufacturer specification along with tip to forward most part of the choil measurements and get it dropped, or will it likely be an arduous legal process?

Really, I guess I could just avoid it all by trading it for a lil native or carrying a dragonfly, thus eliminating any/all possibilities of being interpreted as 3" or more, but that extra 1/2" seems like it could come in pretty handy if I were to have JUST ONE knife.
Particularly for utility and survival.

I would just get a nice 5" fixed, keep that in a bugout bag, and use a dragonfly/lil native ideally, but I can only afford one knife right now.

So I'm just wondering, for the general and worst case options, should I just go with a lil native for now and not carry the native 5, or should I be content with knowing that it will probably be tossed if it ever gets to that point due to manufacturer spec?

 

[zzyzzogeton]

The "standard" method of measuring a blade is the straight-line distance from the tip to the guard, or where a guard would be if the knife had a guard. On a folder, this is typically the front edge of the knife's bolster or handle.

IIRC, Connecticut is the only place that uses "edge length" as the measuring location/method.

 

[vansman]

Do you think that I will have an issue with an officer if they were to measure it and it were to "look like" it is 3" since 2.95 is really hard to see (though still visible) on a ruler?
I'm trying to avoid going to court altogether, or get easily get the case tossed or quickly decided because of the knife being obviously legal.
I can't afford an attorney, so I'm trying to get something that covers all bases and won't even make it to court, or, in the most likely scenario, if it gets confiscated and I get a ticket for a summons or a receipt to pick it up later, it is very easy for me to verify that it is legal.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

After you use it a bit and sharpen it a few times, the tip will be a little shorter anyway. But no, I really don't think a LEO is going to quible over 0.05 of an inch.

Back when the Texas length limit for public carry was 5-1/2", most cops just used a $1, which is 6 inches long, as a ruler. If the knife blade was longer than a dollar bill, the cop knew he/she had a good bust and there would be no quibling by the criminal's lawyer about smidgens of an inch.

I personnally think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. If you don't go around playing stupid games, you won't win stupid prizes.

 

[ggw]

Just don't do it if you feel you could get in trouble.
Get yourself something like a Benchmade Proper or a Dragonfly etc. and never have the feeling you could get in problems. Something that feels good to you.

 

[vansman]

Yeah, I think that you're both right.
Also, an SRK is $40 now, a far cry from the $100 it used to be, though it's made of a weird steel, it's probably thick enough for bushcrafting If the need arises.
Fallkniven A1 is also a good bugout option, but a tad pricey for me at the moment.
Maybe I'll sell the native 5 and get a lil native, or just store it in some kind of small box in my car if I'm "loafing and loitering".
I can probably sell it for a solid $30-$40 more than what a lil native would cost, effectively bringing it down to the price of $20 more than a dfly.
Though it would be nice just to have all of my bases covered no matter what, and the dfly/lil native does that for me.
Alternatively, I can just shave it down to 2.7 or 2.8 or whatever size it takes to make it not even look like it's 3".

 

[vansman]

So an update:
-Turns out i can't even carry it while messengering per my agreement.
It will live in my car and go with me everywhere else otherwise.
-it CAN be measured as 3 and 1/4" from the tip tongue aft most part of the hilt( by the thumb jimp).
-it is otherwise very obviously under 3".
-i just carved wood with it (wow, seriously amazing ergonomics, shape, and the steel treats wood like it is paper) and it still shaves hairs off of my arm. This is definitely a great bugout/utility tool.
- I found a place that will take it down 1/4" for very cheap.

Looks like it's a keeper. Whenever I've done something like carving or cardboard cutting, my blades typically lose their factory edge.

Lil native and dfly is too small for me to trust as something I can rely on for doing everything I would need if the pandemic situation gets much worse.
Only concern is selling it shortened should I ever really need the money more than the tool (situation improves significantly and I trust that things will return to normal).
But I think that selling it as "larger than lil native, shorter than native 5 so that it can in no way be measured as > than $
3" " is a good pitch, because that's exactly what I was looking for myself.

 

[ChuteTheMall]

Have Spyderco send you a free copy of their 2022 product guide, and keep it as official documentation and proof that your Native 5 has a 75mm blade which is 2.95 inches, and a 61mm edge which is 2.42 inches. There is nothing to be afraid of, and no need to shorten a legal knife.

Do you ever drive 45 mph in a 45 mph zone, or are you that guy doing 40 mph?

 

[Locutus D'Borg]

Have Spyderco send you a free copy of their 2022 product guide, and keep it as official documentation and proof that your Native 5 has a 75mm blade which is 2.95 inches, and a 61mm edge which is 2.42 inches. There is nothing to be afraid of, and no need to shorten a legal knife.

Do you ever drive 45 mph in a 45 mph zone, or are you that guy doing 40 mph?

This is a great post.