Spyderco Native, CPMS30V or VG10

N

neeman

Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
6,249
Hi,

I am looking at buying a Spyderco Native.
What is the differences and advantages between the two steels CPMS30V and VG10?

And why is the VG10 more expensive?
 
Last question first. The prices vary depending on where you buy it. Spyderco made a deal with Wallmart that allows Wallmart to give a very advantageous price on the S30V Native. If you try to buy them both at online retailers, the prices are pretty equal. I've seen the Native III in the $40's.

S30V is an American powder metallurgy steel. It keeps an edge longer than VG10. Some folks have had chipping issues with it. Not a high percentage, but enough that it can be said that the problem happens.

VG10 is a Japanese steel that takes a very fine edge and holds it extremely well. I have heard of no chipping issues with it. Unless using diamond sharpeners, the VG10 is probably easier to sharpen because of its lower Vanadium carbide content. Some folks have reported having to develop different sharpening techniques with S30V.

The Native is made in the US. The Native III is made in Japan. It is unclear to me whether are differences in th fit and finish of the Native vs. the Native III. I have a Native III and the F&F were excellent. I do not have a Native.

One other thing. The handle and blade designs are somewhat different between the S30V Native and the VG10 Native III. The Native has a flatter handle. The Native III has a more rounded handle that some who have handled both consider more comfortable in the hand. My Native III is extremely comfortable in the hand and does not feel overly thick when in my pocket.

I opted for a Native III and have been very pleased with it.
Knarf
 
Do a search of the toolshed forum for threads by Buck268 that have S30V in the thread title. He fussed for a couple of months before he got his technique down. I don't use the steel so I didn't bother to memorize the details of what actually worked for him. He finally did find something that worked and now is very happy with the steel. There have been others, but Buck268's saga I followed for a while and it immediatly springs to mind. You could also search the toolshed forum for threads about S30V. There's more than a couple. I don't remember any threads talking about having a hard time sharpening VG10. You just sharpen it.

click the search button
on the popup click "advanced search"
put in "S30V" with no quotes.
select "search titles only"
put in "Buck268" as the author (again, no quotes)
select the "toolshed forum" as the only place to search.

Knarf
 
They really are very different knives. They don't look like it at first glance but there are enough small differences to add up. Not only handle thickness but placement of the hole and the clips. I traded the Native III and kept the Native, even though I've had little tiny chips in the S30V. YMMV

Frank
 
I had a Native III once with VG-10 blade steel and it was an OK knife. However I found that particular handle to be a little on the bulky side.

I have always had an affinity for Golden Colorado made Spyders. I'm not saying that the Native III is a bad knife at all. But There is just something about Golden Colorado made Spyders. Crucible blade steels have been used in the Golden Colorado models for some time now and I have a lot of favorable predjudice for American made blade steels. However I must admit that I still like the performance of the older 440V ( S60V) Crucible steel a little better than I do the highly celebrated S30V.

Now if you are lucky enough to find an older Spyderco Native with GIN-1 blade steel don't be reluctant about trying it out. GIN-1 is still a blade steel I happen to like. Be warned about 440V because the one drawback it has is that it is a nightmare to sharpen :eek: But it is great performing blade steel.

Get a Golden Colorado Native. You won't regret it :cool:
 
vg10 is a fine steel but s30v is a better steel

The vg10 version is made in japan the s30v is made in the usa

For me id much rather ave he s30v version for the reasons listed above.

There are (proven) reports that s30v chips I havent chipped mine yet but ive only had it a couple months. I have chipped my spyderco navigator vg-10 (cutting rubber) and my friend chipped his navigator vg-10 cutting shingles. I started a thread about it on the spyderco forum and almost everyone was shocked and said it was EXTREMELY rare
 
I just got an S30V serrated one. I like the S30v handle much better than the slimmer Native III. I have an arthritic thumb and the squarer handle lets me open the serrated S30V ...FAR....easier than the other one I had and had to trade for a Delica.

FWIW
 
'Gone the Native with S30V in my pocket now. It's my EDC blade and handles apples, cupons, tape, and those infernal bubble packs that stuff come in these days with flawless performance. I'll admit I haven't even touched-up the blade in the 6-months I've had it, so no feedback on sharpening, but the edge retention seems superb.

For $40 at Sam's place, it's tough to beat.
 
I use a plain edged Native in S30V as my usual edc. It's edge has held up to some moderate abuse so far without any chipping. I just give it 3-4 light passes on a crock-stick pocket sharpener and it "bites" just like new.
You really can't go wrong with either steel though. VG-10 is my favorite all-around steel and if anybody knows how to properly treat it, its Spyderco.
 
VG10 for me. No chipping and great edge holding. S30V is good, too, but I wouldn't call it superior to VG10.
 
I really like my VG-10 also. Wickedly sharp out of the box. Its first job was to field dress a deer. Very happy with it.
 
knarfeng said:
Do a search of the toolshed forum for threads by Buck268 that have S30V in the thread title. He fussed for a couple of months before he got his technique down. I don't use the steel so I didn't bother to memorize the details of what actually worked for him. He finally did find something that worked and now is very happy with the steel. There have been others, but Buck268's saga I followed for a while and it immediatly springs to mind. You could also search the toolshed forum for threads about S30V. There's more than a couple. I don't remember any threads talking about having a hard time sharpening VG10. You just sharpen it.

click the search button
on the popup click "advanced search"
put in "S30V" with no quotes.
select "search titles only"
put in "Buck268" as the author (again, no quotes)
select the "toolshed forum" as the only place to search.

Knarf
Click to expand...


I did struggle with the transition from carbon steels and low-end stainless to S30V for a long time. It got to the point where I sent the knife in to Spyderco to see if there was a problem with the heat treat. There was not ;)
In any case, what I have found works alright for me is to use medium pressure with an edge leading stroke on a 1200 grit DMT stone as the finishing step (and also as a daily touch up). The S30V seems to not hold onto that hair popping edge very well and also has trouble getting it, but also seems to hold a solid working edge extremely well. Additionally, it slices much better than it should for any given sharpness or finishing grit, in my experience (which, of course, somebody will argue against).

All in all I cannot bad mouth S30V, but I can say that I don't think its the best steel for me, as I like to have that absolute razor edge and don't mind showing my blade a little love on a daily basis. I'm very impressed with Spyderco's service and am looking forward to trying out their VG10 and H1 steels, but I just don't know which one to get first!
 
I bought an S30v Native from Walmart not too long ago specifically to test S30v with a factory edge. It seems to be that in the vast majority of cases with S30v, it is with the factory edge that the chipping occurs. I tested the Native side by side with my Byrd. They both cut the same things. The first thing I cut was the paper cover off a water bottle with my Native. I did this lightly, the knife is sharp afterall. I noticed that the knife almost immediately went much duller. Cutting through a fair amount of cardboard with both knives, the Byrd stayed noticably sharper than the Native. At this point, both knives had moderate difficulty slicing printer paper the Native having greater difficulty. I stopped the test here.

Under 60x magnification there was some microchipping on the Native, none on the byrd.

I touched up both knives with the fine stones on my sharpmaker. I gave both 25 strokes each and they were both shaving sharp. I am in the process of testing them again but even with the little bit of sharpening, there has been a big difference in the S30v's performance. They are both about as dull as they were when I stopped the first test and the S30v is outlasting the Byrd. The first cut with the Native also did not instantly dull the knife as with the factory edge either.

Under magnification there is no microchipping on either knife.

I expect the edge holding of the Native to improve even more when I sharpen it again, this time removing more (fatigued by factory sharpening?) metal.
 
I've carried the Native III with VG-10 steel more than than the other Natives. I haven't used them much to determine whether S30V is any better or worse than VG-10. The Native III performs quite well and the only thing that I've noticed with the VG-10 is that it stains. I've used it several times for cutting steaks and such and the blood from the meat has left light stains on the blade. A good washing right after use has pretty much eliminated the staining and should be something to keep in mind. With what experience I have with the different steels, I prefer the VG-10.
 
The Native III is better than the original in every single way aside from pocketability due to handle thickness, in my opinion.

The III feels way better in the hand due to the advanced and improved ergonomics. The wire clip is easier on the hands and pockets, as well.

Blade shapes are only slightly different, and applications will be similar, but I happen to think VG-10 is a better steel for daily users than S30V for several reasons. The first being that it sharpens way easier, especially if you blunt or roll the edge. S30V is fine if you really keep on it, but if you really use it for something rough, or let it go too long, you will have a hard time getting it back to razor sharpness, where as VG-10 is a breeze. The edge retention between the two may be slightly better for S30V on paper, but really use the two, and I doubt you will notice anything.
 
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