Spyderco needs to make a dive knife!

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Mitchell Knives

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I teach SCUBA here at the local University and privately and have been unable to find any knife that could be used as a legitimate dive knife. It's very frustrating considering a knife is an essential part of your gear. When students ask me what knife I recommend, I don't have anything to tell them.

I was thinking that maybe Spyderco should enter the dive knife market. They could even call it the "Urchin". I'm sure there would be interest in a quality dive knife.

Most of the dive knives on the market are made out of cheap steel that is impossible to sharpen and will not hold an edge. There are a few that are made out of AUS-6, but they are way to big for the intended use. I think that the companies making them have no idea of what a dive knife is used for and what it should be like.

A dive knife is not a pry bar so it doesn't need to be super tough. It needs a good handle and a blade that is no bigger than 2.5 - 3.5 inches. Folders arn't allowed. Serrations are usually preferred. The sheath needs to be a quick draw type that can be accesed with one hand. You should just have to pull and out comes the knife. The steel should be corrosion resistant and easy to sharpen. Basically all you use the knife for is cutting cave line, fishing line, etc. You don't go around stabbing anything or prying with it. (If you know that you will need to pry, bring a real pry bar.)

It would be great if Spyderco would make a legitamate dive knife for all of us who are in the water regularly. I know that I would recommend them to all my students. (Around 100 a year.) I hope that Spyderco will consider making one.

Actually, something with a finger hole like the SPOT would be great for diving...expecially when wearing cold water gloves. You could take the blade out to cut, let it dangle from your finger while you adjust the line, etc. The steel would have to be a bit more corrosion resistant though.

Just a thought.
 
Spyderco used to make a dive knife/ prybar a long time ago. it was essentially a piece of stainless about 1"x8" (I think) with what looked like a delica blade folded in one end. I guess they didn't sell many. Doesn't fit your specifications, though
 
>Most of the dive knives on the market are
>made out of cheap steel that is impossible
>to sharpen and will not hold an edge.
>There are a few that are made out of
>AUS-6, but they are way to big for the
>intended use.
...
>Actually, something with a finger hole
>like the SPOT would be great for
>diving...The steel would have to be a bit
>more corrosion resistant though.

You know the scaleless SPOT is AUS-6, right?
 
Originally posted by ElectricZombie
I teach SCUBA here at the local University and privately and have been unable to find any knife that could be used as a legitimate dive knife...When students ask me what knife I recommend, I don't have anything to tell them...Most of the dive knives on the market are made out of cheap steel that is impossible to sharpen and will not hold an edge. There are a few that are made out of AUS-6, but they are way to big for the intended use...A dive knife is not a pry bar so it doesn't need to be super tough. It needs a good handle and a blade that is no bigger than 2.5 - 3.5 inches...Serrations are usually preferred...The sheath needs to be a quick draw type that can be accesed with one hand...The steel should be corrosion resistant and easy to sharpen...
Click to expand...
You have pretty much described the SOG Seal Pup (except that its' blade is 4.75 inches long). (Sorry it's not a Spydie.).
 
Yes, I know that the SPOT is AUS-6. I've tried AUS-6 before and it's ok. It does rust, but not too bad. Isn't the AUS-6 SPOT bead blasted too? Isn't that finish prone to rust anyway? I'm really looking for something that would be even more stain resistant. (Unless someone can persuade me that Spyderco's AUS-6 will hold up better to salt water.) If I can't find anything else, I might go with a SPOT and just give it a light coat of Rustoleum. (I don't know how this would effect ease of sharpening though. Has anyone done this before?) I would have to adapt the sheath for waist belt carry too.

I've looked at the SOG Seal Pup too. 4.75 is just too big. You really need a smaller knife. It is typically used just to cut line. You don't really need anything else until you start doing advanced wreck diving.

Maybe a SPOT would work. I'd hate to get one and try it out just to see it rust away.

Mission knives does have a small titanium knife that seems just about right. How does titanium hold an edge? Ease of sharpening?


Thanks
 
How about a Spyderco Snap-it EMT? I have used one of the older versions for a long time around water, including snorkeling and sea kayaking, often in brackish or salt water. Spyderco did make a diving knife; basically it was an abalone iron/pry bar with a folding blade at one end.
 
EZ:
Gotcha. I thought you implied that you thought AUS6 was a good steel for your needs. My mistake.

Have you tried coated knives? That is, would a coated SPOT do what you need it to do?

How would you modify the SPOT design for diving?

As for the Snap-its and Probes... Great knives, but EZ said originally that "folders aren't allowed".

[edited 'cause I weren't clear enuff]
 
Man, those Spydie dive probes are so cool. But, with a starting bid of $200, and a buy it now price of $400, I think I might have to pass.

I think the ideal dive knife would be a Blue Rescue shaped fixed blade, full serrated, with a black teflon or similar coating. With a nice, thick blade, and a grippy handle. I'm not a divemaster, though, so my opinion could be entirely wrong.

I do know that Diving is one of the most expensive sports, right up there with Golfing and Skiing, at least equipment wise. And, it has a lot of fanatical enthusiasts who want the very best.

Unlike Golfing and Skiing, though, Diving is a sport that usually requires a knife. And, diving knives go for a LOT of money, especially considering the quality of the blade steel, materials, and workmanship.

One company, Underwater Kinetics, is selling a knife with steel they call "Hydralloy" which "provides the strength of 420 Stainless Steel, while exceeding the corrosion resistance of 316 Stainless Steel". :barf:

It seems to me that with a blade coating, even AUS 6 would whomp everything else on the market.

I sure wouldn't want to risk my life by carrying a knife that can't hold an decent edge. Sure, it'll get ya through the first couple lines, but, what if you get really caught up and that's not good enough?

There probably is a reason Spyderco did not persue the diving market. Maybe someday, they'll make another dive knife.

-- Rob
 
I believe that the Spyderco being discussed and sold on e-bay is not a generic "dive knife." I remember reading somewhere that it is an Abalone knife for harvesting Abalone. If I'm correct, the ruler is to measure it (has to be a certain size for harvesting) with the knife and pry bar portion having a specific use for Abalone harvesting.
 
Hi Zombie, actuallt it's on R&D's p[roject list. So, your support and comments are appreciated. I think we're on the same wave length as to needed features. We done extensive testing on blade materials and think we
ve found some winners.

some questions:

Do you think that a dive knife needs a point at all?

Handles that are removable?

Sheath material opinions?

Any other features important, IYO?

We've done color testing to 100 feet. Most colors go early. Do you have any opinions on color?

My wife and I are certified divers and my daugter and son also dive. We have a pretty good idea of what's going on under water and we're always seeking opinions.

sal
 
Hi Sal. Thanks for replying to my post. Let me answer your questions one by one.

1. "Do you think that a dive knife needs a point at all?"

99% of the time the answer is no. A flat tip allows you to use the tip as a screw driver underwater to adjust pieces of gear, etc. In cave and wreck diving, both very equiptment intensive, a screwdriver comes in handy. The only time I can think in which a sharp point is needed, is when you spear fish. In spearfishing you do need a little longer knife so you can take the fish out with a stab to the head/spine if it's trashing about. Since all the spearfishing knife does is stab, it doesn't need to be of very high quailty. There are a lot of adequate spearfishing knives around. As for the blade shape, there are a lot of options.

2. "Handles that are removable?"

Unless the blade is made of titanium or some other sort of super alloy, the handles will trap water and cause rust underneath...even if you take really good care of your knife. I kind of like the "less is more" approach, leaving the handles off. If a handle is desired, it needs to be something where water cannot get onto the handle.

3. "Sheath material opinions?"

Just as long as it hold the knife securely and does not hold water. A Zytel sheath would probably work and help save money. I'm sure kydex would be fine also. The sheath does need to be quickdraw though. When you really need your knife underwater, you should be able to draw if quickly with one hand without have to undo snaps, buckles, etc. It's better if the sheath is mounted on the waist strap of your BC (2 inch webbing) instead of on the leg. It's a lot easier to access this way! Plus you can get to it with either hand.

3. "Any other features important, IYO?"

When you start doing more advanced diving, there may be an emergency situation in which you have to remove a faulty 2nd stage underwater and replace it with one that works. This has acutally happened many times. Having a wrench built into the handle of the knife would make removing the second stage so much easier. Right now I have to carry a separate adjustable wrench in a pocket just in case. It could be like one of those cutouts in the knife handle that will fit most any nut size. The knife needs to be fairly small, maybe 2 - 3 inches in blade length, have great corrosion resistance, an excellent sheath (very important...most dive knives are lost because of junk sheaths) and be able to sharpen easily.

4. "We've done color testing to 100 feet. Most colors go early. Do you have any opinions on color?

Going back to your Basic OW class, ROYGBIV - in order of first to last absorbed. I don't see any need for colors on a dive knife. (Or any other piece of dive gear other than a safety sausage. I go all black.) Some people argue that a colorful knife would be easier to find if you drop it. I say that all that time and effort would have been better spent making a high quality sheath that will actually retain the knife! If the knife has a handle, it should be black. If not, then a dull metal finish would be great. (Don't want it reflecting light in a cave...might mess up your vision in a darkened environment.)

The only dive knife that comes close to what divers really need is a knife made by Mission knives. (Blunt tip, 3 inches, serrated) The problem with their design is that they have retained the pry bar mentality. The knife is made pretty thick and will not cut as well as a thinner blade. I'm also not quite convinced that titanium is the way to go in terms of edge holding.

Thanks for you interest Sal, I hope that Spyderco makes one in the future!

If you guys make any prototypes, please consider me as a possible tester. I'm in the water year around and use my gear hard. Plus, I can give the diver/knife nut perspective. Thanks.
 
Dive knife with a point? Not really neccesary.

Handles? Either removable or epoxy sealed. G-10 with deep grip grooves preferred. (By me!!)

Colors? I am a fan of colors but they are pretty much gone by 1ATM in most water.

I personally would like to see a better steel than AUS-6 even... there are some good treatments out there that will keep most steel (Even high-carbon looking good with a minimum of care.

Ben
 
Fozzy: Really, you don't need a point. If you have just got to have a point, something like sheepsfoot blade would be good. Remember that the knife is just for cutting line, etc. G-10 handles would be nice if the steel is really corrosion resistant. AUS-6 is ok but I want something better too. The colors will wash out at depth, and I think colorful gear is distracting.

Medic1210: Yes, I teach for ECU...I think the best thing about the school is the SCUBA program. You need to sign up for one of our SCUBA classes! Or better yet, you can sign up for one of my private classes!:D
 
Johnathan-

My comment may have been misleading- I favor a blunt tip on a dive knife- I have a pointy little Wenoka on my console if I need it. I'd much rather have a blunt tip on a larger knife.

Better steel is very important to me. I'm not a steel snob but AUS-6 and 440A just don't do it for me.

Ben
 
Ok, misread your post.

What about the steel that Microtech uses for their filet knives? I can't remember what it is called, but it can't be too bad if Microtech uses it.
 
Originally posted by ElectricZombie
Most of the dive knives on the market are made out of cheap steel that is impossible to sharpen and will not hold an edge.
Click to expand...

Except for cobalt alloys and titanium, these steels seem to be the best option when it comes to corrosion resistance - and they are supposed to be easy to resharpen.
 
I live in Queensland in Australia.
I am close enough to the Great Barrier Reef that I do a bit of diving.
I consider myself very much an amatuer, though I do love to dive and having the right equipment is important cause every second can count and all of that.

I would not think that a point is really necessary on a dive knife. Points have uses and all but really I think a good dive knife should be nice barebones functionality.

Colours are not important to me. I think that if anything they are more likely to be a hinderance, in that they may effect nightvision.
Though this is of very little concern to me.

Just my $0.02 nothing profound but I think that if everyone puts in their suggestions it might just help.

I would get a sypdie dive knife if it ever came out, even though it would cost a shiiiiittte load down here in Australia

Exchange rate suckssssss
 
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