Spyderco No Takey Aparty?

[Daniel Moore]

I just posted in General. I ordered a PE FRN Delica from the very awesome Knifesite.com. From what I hear, Spyderco's cannot be taken apart, which, IMO, is something that should be rectified. I'm worried about what will happen if I ever need to take it apart for maintenance and it's not warranty covered. I sort of wish I had realized this before I ordered it, not that I wouldn't have ordered it, but at least I would have been aware.

 

[fishbulb]

As far as I know none of the Spyderco FRN lightweights uses a threaded fastener for the pivot. They all use simple pins.

Personally I believe this to be among the biggest problems with the method of construction used for these knives. Other than the obvious cost saving it offers no advantage of which I am aware, and makes it much more difficult to take the knife apart for cleaning.

It also makes it effectively impossible to adjust pivot tension for individual preference or to compensate for wear. Additionally, it eliminates the pivot screw as a possible point for attaching a pocket clip, resulting in less choice of mounting options.

If you are willing to be creative and wave "bye bye" to your warranty it is possible to take them apart, but it requires drilling or cutting the end off of the pin and inserting and peening over another one. Or just taking some initiative to improve your knife and replacing the pin with a screw.

 

[DaveH]

With all do respect I think you are both misguided in your belief that an inexpensive folder should have expensive knife chracteristics.

The solution is simple, inexpesive knives are what they are, so live with it, or buy other knives that better suit your needs.

 

[allyourblood]

wait -- why does having a removable pivot pin make a knife "expensive"? i have a $40.00 PE Leek that is completely "user servicable".

though maybe i should shut up, since i don't mind the non-openable design in the slightest.

abe m.

 

[calyth]

I've screwed up the blade alignment on more than a few occasion with my CRKTs after I've taken it apart, and I know a first hand account of screwing a lockback by trying to take it apart, even though it's pretty much pinned together except the pivot (guess the model).
They don't go back as easy as you think and can affect the lock adversely. That's another reason why they pin it, I suppose.

 

[fishbulb]

Originally posted by DaveH
With all do respect I think you are both misguided in your belief that an inexpensive folder should have expensive knife chracteristics.

There are many inexpensive knives (some even less expensive than the Delica) which use threaded fasteners in the blade pivot.

While simply not buying it is a good solution (and one which I have used so far) an even better solution is discussing the characteristics with other knowlegeable people, which could bring to light other points of view that would change my mind or even result in changes to improve the product itself.

 

[ThinkOfTheChildren]

I'll post this in both of the current rivet threads...
These are some quotes I just got from the search function from Sal regarding rivets. I know that he has addressed this issue many times.

Originally posted by Sal Glesser
...The disadvantage to screws is that they move. Sometimes parts loosen and rigidity becomes questionable...

An advantage of rivets is that they do not move (at least ours don't). The knive remains rigid. Rivets are less expensive (putting screws in the Wegner might bring the price over the thresh-hold for the majority of our ELU).

Our Seki makers are exceptional at rigid construction when using rivets. We are just now working with them on screwing parts together. Not everyone wants screws or wants to pay for them. These are some of the majors. The best solution for the problem may not always be the same solution. Hope this helps.
sal

...It takes more force to disrupt (bend) a rivet than it does to disrupt a screw of the same diameter. Especially with the pins we use. It takes at least 100 inch/lbs of force to bend a pin...

"But if he keeps having to address it," you may ask, "why not change things?"

Well, beyond what he says above, I've read from him many times that the vast majority of people who purchase the riveted FRN models have not expressed a desire or need to have knives that come apart. Remember that Spyderco is working for the entire knife community, not just the knife community here at BFC. The savings in cost wins out with most people and Spyderco can rest assured that their inexspensive models are still solid and perform well even in inexperienced hands.

 

[ThinkOfTheChildren]

It should be noted that what Sal says regarding the increased strength of the rivets has truly shown itself in real life. How many times on these forums have we read of people who have Delicas and Enduras that are still going strong and acting like new after 7 or 8 years of duty? I know that I have such an Endura.

I sympathize with the desire to take your knives apart if you want, but I've honestly never needed to do it with any of my FRN spydies. Yes, there is a difference between desire and need, but knife companies can't always take desires into account. Taking needs into account is much more important.

 

[Grover_Cephas]

>Other than the obvious cost saving it
>offers no advantage of which I am aware,
>and makes it much more difficult to take
>the knife apart for cleaning.

The bottom line is that screws aren't an unqualified improvement. They have some advantages and some disadvantages.

Avantages:
-Disassemblable for user service
-User-adjustable pivot tightness

Disadvantages:
-Greater expense
-decreased strength
-Increased demands for warrantee service due to botched reassambly

Now understand that the two advantages are knife "luxuries". It's very easy to do without them. The overwhelming popularity of rivited Spydercos proves that. But the disadvantages can have a serious adverse effect on the product in the marketplace. Remember that "knife people" are only a very small part of Spyderco's business, especially for popular models like the Delica and Endura.

If the price increases, the average ELU (who's probably already stretching his budget for a knife) will be inclined to look elsewhere.

If the strength decreases, Spyderco's will get a reputation for breakage (although this'd probaly be a bigger issue on the SS models...)

And just as importantly, the warrantee service issue would cause Spyderco no end of headaches. How many Delicas, Enduras, and Rescue models d'you think are out there? tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions, even? Imagine that each one is in the hands of a curious ELU with a screwdriver. Spyderco is bombarded with warrantee requests for knives that were improperly reassembled. They have three options:
-Honor the requests, despite the fact that the customers voided their warrantees, at what I can only imagine will be a large expense (the repair shop would spent twelve hours a day reassembling Delicas and replacing stripped screws)
-Refuse to honor the voided warrantee, and end up with tens of thousands of dissatisfied customers who'll be less inclined to buy Spydercos in the future (Remember, Spyderco serves a huge market that isn't very knife-savvy; the greatest asset is trust in their brand name. If cops and firemen and rescue personnel see a wave of stories about Spyderco knives breaking and the company refusing to fix 'em, it could be disaterous for business)
-Rivet the knives together and avoid the whole issue.

Look at it from Spyderco's point of view:
Change the tooling on your most successful models while raising the price and inviting headaches for themselves and the enormous majority of their customer base, all in order to meet the _desires_ of a tiny fraction of their audience... Or leave well enough alone.