Spyderco Paramilitary

Cliff Stamp

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I carried this alongside a Manix for quite awhile trying to decide which one was the better knife. There really was no clear decision.

For a lot of EDC use the Paramilitary was easier to handle, finer point, lighter and easily enough blade and strength.

For a lot of wood work I readily picked the Manix for the thicker point and greater heft.

Two really nice knives, similar cutting ability due to profile, fairly different handling and chopping ability.

I did a fair amount of edge retention work on carpet with the Paramilitary against a few other knives as well as the Manix as a QC check.

I will be doing more next week when my Sebenza arrives as I want to check Reeve vs Spyderco.

Ref :

http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/paramilitary.html

-Cliff
 
Very thorough review that test lots of variables. Thanks for posting it.

The Compression Lock is my absolute favorite lock.
 
Thom,
How does the compression lock compare to the Benchmade Axis lock as found on the 710?
Why do you prefer the Compression?
Is it stronger, can you unlock it as easily and as fast as the Axis, is it prone to jamming like some integrals are?

I love the Axis lock, and if the Compression lock is equal or better I would be interested in buying one.

BTW Thom, I just want to let you know that I have enjoyed reading your posts over the last couple months, very solid perspective. Thanks.

Cliff,
How does the tip on the Para compare to the regular Military? I had an S30V Military (and the 440V first run before that), and sold them both because I thought the tip was too thin for that type of knife. ON a smaller knife, like the Para, I can see where it would be a more cohesive in the design.

How does the Compression lock compare to the nested iner lock?

How do you think the Compression compares to the Axis?

Can you move the clip for tip position and L/R as on the Manix?

How does Spyderco's S30V compare to Benchmade's M2, other than in corrosion resistance?

How did the Para compare to the Rat Trap?

I actually have a few more questions, but don't want to take up too much of your time, you donate an amazing amount already, which is greatly appreciated by many.

On a side note, your reviews have really come up a level in readability comparing the old reviews to the latest series. While the scope of work does not seemed to ahve changed much, I think your writing style has changed a bit for the better in that the work you performed is more understandable, as well seeing the pictures is of great benefit. They keeps the reader focused, a bit of eye candy.

As well, by presenting more of your field work than you did before, I think you have effectively silenced many of those that leapt to attack your work. As a reader and student of edged tools, not having the rampant personal attacks makes things much more interesting to me, since I am able to concentrate on the relavent work and posts without having to sift through the garabage.
 
knifetester said:
How does the compression lock compare to the Benchmade Axis lock as found on the 710?

The Axis Lock is easier to learn how to use and can be used to open or close the knife more quickly than with the Compression Lock. Few and far between are the people who don't quickly grasp the Axis Lock. It's very strong, secure, and reliable.

knifetester said:
Why do you prefer the Compression?
Is it stronger, can you unlock it as easily and as fast as the Axis, is it prone to jamming like some integrals are?

The Compression Lock is stronger and more secure, but at a loss of speed when compared to the Axis Lock. If Benchmade chose to seat the Axis bar further forward on the spine side of the tang, they'd be nearly identical in security (which is like saying: "If the Secret Service would only hire three more agents..." as the Axis Lock is very secure). The Compression Lock seems to be made for lefties (I are one), though it's easier to flick open and closed with the right hand.


knifetester said:
I love the Axis lock, and if the Compression lock is equal or better I would be interested in buying one.

You're better off choosing the knife that best fits your needs than going for the lock that best fits your needs. For me, the Spyderco Yojimbo is one of my favorite EDC's.
 
Thanks for your review - most informative. In your review you said:

In terms of tip toughness for direct impacts, the Paramilitary was dropped from three feet onto concrete. Three impacts had no significant impacts on the tip, but did gouge the concrete on each impact. Dropping it from six feet however was problematic. On the second impact the tip broke back to 0.015" thick, little indendentation, just a fracture.

As you know I am not into "destructive" testing I leave that to your good self. In relation to the above I ask myself: What impact (pun intended) did the first 3 drops at 3' and the 1 drop at 6' have on the tip. In other words did having the tip impact 4 times weaken the structure which led to the tip fracturing on the 5th drop.

Thanks for the link to my review - I'll put a similar link in it to yours.
 
knifetester said:
I had an S30V Military (and the 440V first run before that), and sold them both because I thought the tip was too thin for that type of knife. ON a smaller knife, like the Para, I can see where it would be a more cohesive in the design.
I can see that. When carrying the Manix which is bigger than the Military, there were times, mainly when woodworking, where a thicker tip would have been of benefit. Spyderco runs many different models of course many with thicker points like the Endura, they also run pointier ones like the Police. I personally would be interested in a 3/16" Manix with a slightly thicker tip and handle slabs extended fully around the choil.

How does the Compression lock compare to the nested iner lock?
I have used three different compression locks to date and they all have very high resistance to torquing and impacts, much better than all the liner/integrals I have seen. Plus I have seen little in the way of reported issues with other users. A decent recessed liner can remove the white knuckle issue but there are still torque / impact issues.

How do you think the Compression compares to the Axis?
I have not used an Axis yet. If Benchmade reacts well to the problem with the Skirmish I'll definately pick one up.

Can you move the clip for tip position and L/R as on the Manix?
No, its fixed, you would have to get holes custom drilled.

How does Spyderco's S30V compare to Benchmade's M2, other than in corrosion resistance?
I can't imagine it could match M2 in any respect outside of corrosion resistance. M2 can be run harder and still be tougher, so better edge retention all around. Th biggest issue would be NIB edge profile which would strongly favor Spyderco for the vast majority of users as an insignificant percentage people alter NIB edge profiles.

How did the Para compare to the Rat Trap?
I didn't do a lot with that before I sent it off to Joe, I wanted him to use the lock in pretty much virgin condition, I'll be using it heavily in rotation once I get it back.

I actually have a few more questions ...
Fire away.

On a side note, your reviews have really come up a level in readability comparing the old reviews to the latest series.
The really old ones are pretty horrible in that respect. Every now and then I take some time and clean up the older ones and a lot of it isn't clear to me and I did it. A lot of the problem comes from working out a review style. As I get more comfortable with the process the writeup relaxes as well.

I think your writing style has changed a bit for the better in that the work you performed is more understandable, as well seeing the pictures is of great benefit. They keeps the reader focused, a bit of eye candy.
They actually have a lot of benefit which I didn't think they would. Writing a section around pictures tends to focus the commentary and I often pick up details which I would have likely missed otherwise. I should have done it a long time ago.

As well, by presenting more of your field work than you did before, I think you have effectively silenced many of those that leapt to attack your work.
I doubt it, most of them tend to make up things I never said and argue against that or prejudge the reviews without ever reading them, that is the most common. The funniest thing is that you will often find multiple groups of people in those threads with opposing viewpoints like "Too much testing, not enough real use." and "Too much subjective work, not enough precise comparisons." It is obvious that there is no real solution to such rants, plus of course they never apply such constraints to other reviews.

As a reader and student of edged tools, not having the rampant personal attacks makes things much more interesting to me, since I am able to concentrate on the relavent work and posts without having to sift through the garabage.
That's the goal of the nonsense, if you can't prevent it, bury it. Just break out a kill file and start "plonking". I read them usually as I can read pretty fast and I find it mostly amusing. I posted the more extreme flames outside my office for my students this year, they thought it was really funny as well, especially the "unscientifc" ones.

JDBLADE said:
In other words did having the tip impact 4 times weaken the structure which led to the tip fracturing on the 5th drop.
I would assume so yes. It would be of interest to note how many impacts it would take at six feet had it not had three already at three.

-Cliff
 
Thom:
You're better off choosing the knife that best fits your needs than going for the lock that best fits your needs.

I totally agree, in fact I use slip joints for the vast majority of my folder needs, so lock strength is not a big factor at all for me. If I am working on a boat or car, cutting hoses, belts, body molding, window seals, line wrapped around a propeller and such, or for one the spur repairs around the house I use my locking folder (M2 710).

Some of my regular use knives have a lock of sorts, but they are secondary. For example on the Opinel (a #6 is very often in my pocket) I often don't bother to engage the lock for light use. On my Kershaw Double Cross, it has a liner lock but I would carry the knife even if it did not, it cuts very nicely. By far, most of my daily cutting chores are handled by a SAK, have been using one for years and never had a problem.

Those knives are designed for pure cutting, the blades would easily snap or bend if subjected to hard use.

I have never had a problem with framelocks, I used a Sebenza for years before I discovered the 710. While I have had framelocks jam open when squeezed hard under hard use (needed to pry the lock open with the bottle opener of the SAK), I have never had it coming close to disengage. As long as you are squeezing the lock, the blade can't close. This is why i do not like tip down carry especially on framelocks, as on the old Pinnacle, the Skirmish, the Buck-Mayo, etc.

Some people, as Cliff reports, have had trouble with framelocks, finding them no more secure than standard Walker liner locks. My conclusion there is that the difference in our perspective probably lies with how we hold the knife, maybe hand shape and the uses for the knife. No big deal, reasonable minds can differ.

Still, I have not found a better lock design than the Axis. One of my brothers works construction, and just wrecks knives. He comes to me for replacements naturally. He has been using a Benchmade 722 Tanto for two years now, for sure a record of knife use for him. He frequently cuts metals and hard plastics, punching holes in aluminum studs, cutting gutters, siding, insulation, conduit, scraping battery terminals etc. He uses the front edge of the tanto as a cold chisel and pounds on the G10 grip with a hammer. Basically hell for a knife, the worst possible uses. When I am not around to sharpen it, he hits it with an angle grinder to rip a new edge on. Leaves it wet, grimy in his coverall pocket for weeks, has been through the washer many times, etc.

The ATS34 has held up suprisingly well and the Axis lock has held up perfect, still locks up tight, no sign of omega sping damage.

I personally would be interested in a 3/16" Manix with a slightly thicker tip and handle slabs extended fully around the choil.

For what uses? I think a knife like that would make a nice version of the original Al Mar SERE knife concept, a folding wilderness use knife.


. If Benchmade reacts well to the problem with the Skirmish I'll definately pick one up.

What problems did you experience with the Skirmish? I have one, but have not used it much at all, too big to carry legally and the primaray grind is too obtuse for the things I use a folder for. For the things I use a fixed blade for, the Skirmish would not be a good substitute. I suppose it would be good (except fot the slick scales) for someone who needed a knife as a weapon, but that is not me.


Re: Para

It is to bad it is not L/R and tip up/down capable like the Manix, as nice as the knife looks this would keep me from buying it.

As I get more comfortable with the process the writeup relaxes as well.

Yes, the improvement is readily apparent.

I have a couple of suggestions, but please consider that I am offering them only for constructive reasons, if you would prefer them by private means, I could email you with such notes in the future. Please don't be offended, it is not my intent at all.

Stock testing for field use for wilderness use knives
Just as you set up runs of stock tests to evalute knives, i.e. string testing for initial sharpness, cardboard and carpet for edge retention, etc, perhaps you could formulate a standardized set of field skill tests.

These could be done on your back porch the same as in the middle of a dense forest, the location of the test (rugged wilderness versus your back yard) is pretty irrelavent. I know some people only consider a review valid if it is done in the middle of an Amazon rain forest or a glacier in Alaska, but I disagree. You are testing the knife, and the knife doesn['t care if you are on a deserted island or sharing a bench with your friends.

Anyways, for wilderness type knives I was thinking of things like carving a spoon blank, figure 4 trap trigger, tent pegs, etc.

A lot of how well a knife suits me is not the blade, but how well the handle fits my hand when shaping wood.

Digging with knife vs carving a digging stick

Several reviews contain comments about digging with your knife. As a test, digging is interesting because it is an extreme accelerated wear test. Digging is also important in a survival contect, especially for obtaining food and water.

However, for me the better route is to use the knife to carve a digging stick, perhaps even fire harden it. A primary importance in having a knife in the woods, to me, is its ability to shape wood, bone and other materials into tools and other useful objects. The disadvantage to using the digging stick approach is that you lose the accelerated wear function of the digging test, but you still get that from used carpet testing, if to a lesser degree (especially as to point impactation).

I have seen, at least on TV examples of people digging with knives, that Barefoot Bushman guy digs with his Rambo fantasy knife quite a bit and to good effect considering his tools, I think Ron Hood used a 3V Ferhman to dig out a water hole in his desert survival video, and in the movie Deliverance I think Ned Beatty used a bowie knife to help dig a grave to bury a sodomite.

In the primative skills work shops I have attended, all have used digging sticks for digging, but then again no one there carries a knife that would be suitable for digging, pocket knives (SAK, Slip Joints) and small neck knives are usually the only knives seen.

Again, just food for thought and no offense meant at all.

Rate of Speed in cutting during edge retention testing

If possible could you include your rate of speed during carpet and cardboard cutting? How do you keep it consistent?

In my use of knives, I have found that rate of speed in cutting abbrasive materials, especially carpet and carboard is a huge factor. If you cut cardboard really fast, it can wear an edge down *much* faster than slow runs. You can actually feel the edge heat up from friction (it burns to the touch, but does not leave blisters and such) after fast runs.


Re: Trolls and flamers
That's the goal of the nonsense, if you can't prevent it, bury it.

Honestly I don't know how you tolerate the constant personal attacks, some coming close to threats. I would have moved the review disccusion to one of the heavily moderated forums (USN, sword forums, etc. for example) or one of the private forums long ago. To be honest, I think there is enough interest in your work to justify its own forum, perhaps a direct link from the reviews to make them interactive. Forum software, UBB, invasion, etc is cheap (usually free) and the bandwidth costs very low.

This would allow people who have a real interest to read, share and learn and you could take measures to remove the BS, active moderation, real name registration (like SF), etc. Just a thought.

Thanks,
KT
 
knifetester said:
Some people, as Cliff reports, have had trouble with framelocks, finding them no more secure than standard Walker liner locks.
I think most would argue they are more secure, slightly because you can reinforce the lock but mainly as they are on higher end blades which are likely to have better construction. Five random Sebenza's would likely compare well to five random point guards in terms of lock construction.

Most tend to promote frame locks because the it is simply much thicker than a liner but this isn't significant usually because it isn't like liners fail due to the liner bending. Plus a lot of framelocks just barely engage anyway so the gross strength of the liner isn't functional anyway.

[thicker manix]

For what uses? I think a knife like that would make a nice version of the original Al Mar SERE knife concept, a folding wilderness use knife.
Yes that is mainly what I was thinking, the Manix has a large handle which is well suited to heavy use so it would be nice to have a blade profile which was so goaled. Not to replace the current Manix though, it works well for a variety of uses.

What problems did you experience with the Skirmish?
Edge chipped out during sharpening, it could not even take the flats of the Sharpmaker fine hones.

... if you would prefer them by private means
Public is usually better as there is the chance for secondary commentary where others are stimulated and engage in the conversation.

...perhaps you could formulate a standardized set of field skill tests.
I have been thinking of doing exactly, splitting the work into groups such as :

food prep : paring, utility, carving/slicing

brush : grasses / leafy vegetation, springy light woods, heavy stiff wood

Each of these of course covers a lot of ground, for example light vegetation gets used for :

-insulation for secondary clothing
-first stage tinder when dry
-smoke for signaling when wet/green
-cover for shelter roof
-insulation for shelter walls
-bedding material
-food
-cordage

Thus the cutting could be done with the knives in a fairly stock way, but the applications different from review to review so they don't end up looking like cookie cutter copies of one another.

I have been thinking of adding a ranking system as well as it would have a lot of benefit for rapid assimilation of an overhead viewpoint. Something simple like 1-10, not just purely subjective but based on the forces, times, etc. as well as subjective issues like comfort.

The biggest problem here is how to rank them, for example compare a Mora 2000 to a TOPS Steel Eagle on Trap making. If the Mora is a 10 the TOPS is less than a one. However if you compare the TOPS to other knives of its size and class it does much better.

Thus I have been thinking of a class and absolute table. Thus one shows how the knife compares to others of its class and one shows it compared to the best knives for those tasks.

With classes I have been thinking of something simple like :

-kitchen
-hunting
-utility
-fighting

with a few subdivisions.

I know some people only consider a review valid if it is done in the middle of an Amazon rain forest or a glacier in Alaska, but I disagree.
This is mainly mall ninja viewpoint. The only real difference is that the stress is higher in an actual survival situation so methods may be less than optimal but actually waiting for that to evaluate the knife is kind of idiotic for obvious reasons and you can always evaluate this with less experienced and more physically capable people.

However, for me the better route is to use the knife to carve a digging stick, perhaps even fire harden it.
In any actual survival situation I would try to avoid digging with a knife mainly because it puts a tremendous amount of wear on the edge, it can also round and blunt the point. For evaluation purposes it mainly lets you look at durability plus ease of sharpening in extreme conditions.

It has its uses as it is much more efficient than a digging stick for cutting sod (building material) and breaking apart impacted ground, but often you could look for different locations or substitute materials. Depends on the knife as well, some are actually designed for digging of course.

if you were going to do it in such a situation you would want an efficient sharpening stone on hand, an x-coarse waterstone or better, as otherwise it takes far too much time and effort to repair the edge.

[cutting speed]

How do you keep it consistent?
I time the runs, the biggest problem is that you have to watch yourself on larger thicker knives as they take more force to get the cut started and unless you take care you can end up pulling them faster towards the end of the cut so the average time can be the same but you have slow/fast vs medium which is fairly different.

I don't know how you tolerate the constant personal attacks, some coming close to threats.
Once you understand where it comes from your viewpoint tends to be different.

...take measures to remove the BS, active moderation, real name registration (like SF), etc. Just a thought.
There are benefits to a more focused discussion, but Bladeforums has a fairly wide audience, and the interference is usually fairly mild except for the occasional week or two when someone take a run, but they usually burn themselves out fairly quicky, fires need fuel after all.

-Cliff
 
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