spyderco rejected for AFCK b/c bad in caracci's eyes?

C

curious2003

Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
220
Hey you all I did a search and came up empty on this point. Nobody seems to have addressed this particular portion of AFCK origins. Yes there are the posts with sal answering that they couldn't do the caracci model and passed it up etc, but chris' own words seem different. what's the deal sal?

i'm not a troll i just want to know the story from spyderco's viewpoint...it seems as if the issue was not addressed

and fyi spyderco and benchmade are my two favourite knife companies. this is not anything more than an honest question. Spyderco has always been seen by its customers as a straight up honest company. this was the first time I heard it portrayed in a negative light until I saw the thread by AG on Golden factory.

Below is an old post from Caracci's Jungle where he talks about the origins of the AFCK. It is completely different than the story told by sal. Nobody seems to have noticed it in this forum. Here is an excerpt:

In the mid eighties I was given a spyderco police model by a dear friend of mine in the D.C. area.
He is quite an accomplished Martial Artist and 32 year law enforcement veteran with Prince George County Sheriff Office. We had many a discussion about the knife and wanted to see some changes. We talked to people at spyderco but no one seemed interested. During the course of these conversations and ordering many knives for my students, I got to know the presidents executive seceratary, a wonderful lady who I later met at some of the shows.
One day she told me that she was being fired. She was told it was because she told me where the knives where being blackened and some other trumped up issues. This lady was a little older than middle aged as I remember, and as sweet as one's mother. I was so angry, I now had the motivation I needed to make a statement to that company, so I decided to make the knife my friend and I talked about, but it certainly would not be with spyderco. It took three years but it happened.
Bottom line is if your a jerk to my friends than your a jerk to me and I have no problem helping Karma along the way.

what to make of this??? :(
 
Curious,
I’m not informed about the history what you are investigating mostly because I was never interested. However I can point you some general rules what governs such sensations:
  • How many people are engaged into each disagreement – so many different versions of its sense you will get.
  • Someone could do not like to comment the event what is already commented once and no new facts or ideas became known after this comment.
  • The very most of people come here to discuss the knives, however seems few persons are more interested in muckraking more than in knives. Good, Bad & Ugly forum is much more suitable place to do it if you like.
Enough, not worth to talk about anymore. Could someone move this to suitable place, please?
 
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin

Enough, not worth to talk about anymore. Could someone move this to suitable place, please?
Click to expand...

Hi Sergiusz,

Sal prefers open discussion, as long as it is civil. Personally, I'd prefer to "Whine & Cheese" it. If it gets out of hand I'll close it down.

My only comment on this topic for curious2003: Ever see the film "Rashomon" ?
 
Hi Curious. Interesting comments. I can tell you what I know to be true. I believe that Chris Caracci liked the Police model because he made a video of him using the knife in a variety of his excellent moves. We were impressed with both Chris and his video.

The only secretary that I had in the 80's would have to be "A". We'll call her "A" as using names would not be fair or proper. I cannot say what "A" might have said to Chris. I can say that "A" was not discharged. She resigned with 10 minutes notice and forced her son (who was also working for Spyderco), to resign at the same time.

I was quite disappointed at the circumstance and timing of their resignation. I'm sure that HP and Bea Klotzly (who were in the office at the time) would remember the circumstance, should you wish to continue persuit.

I can tell you that it was no secret that Darrel (TiGold) was coating our knives with titanium carbo-nitrate. It was mentioned in the Blade magazine along with pictures of the knives. Larry Harley was managing the Spyderco account and we were promoting heavily to help Darrel launch his new coating. I cannot imagine what other "trumped up" issues Chris might have heard.

It is unfortunate that Chris didn't speak with me. My secretary was quite displeased with me over a position she wanted that was offered to another. Perhaps her view was tainted.

I do remember that Chris telephoned Spyderco in the early 90's and spoke with our Marketing Manager about a design he had. As I understand it, we told him that we were "snowed" and not in a position to make another design at the time.

I know that if you lay an AFCK on top of a Police Model, it is easy to see the influence. It is also one of the very few, if not the only "Bent handle" design that Benchmade produces. The "bent handle" is/was a distinguishing feature of our models. We also licensed Benchmade to use our "Round Hole" trademark to help them get going.

I'm sorry that Chris has hard feelings. Perhaps some time in the future, Chris and I might have an opportunity to chat.

Curious, Spyderco has always tried to leave "shiny footprints" (a Steve Gartin line) where ever we've gone. When we err, we accept responsibility. Our management team labors over being fair. It is the Spyderco way and it exists in the crew without me. It is not not likely that we (individually or cellectively) would do something to intentionally hurt someone. That doesn't mean that we wouldn't discharge an employee, but the purpose would not be to hurt them. Above all, we will be fair with our crew, Vendors and customers.

sal
 
I wonder if curious2003 is still curious - or does he have more old rumors that need to be laid to rest. :yawn:
 
WOW I never thought I would read a Steve Gartin quote in these forums

In Hormat,

Bill
 
thanks sal for taking the time to respond.

as for the rest of you if you do not like my question you do not have to respond. i see nothing wrong with seeking a clarification of something. i have a high opinion of spyderco as a company and of sal. this is why what i read bothered me and i decided to find out sal's position on it.

i do not see why a question regarding spyderco cannot be asked in a spyderco forum? is the spyderco forum only meant for utter adoration of spyderco products and their supremacy? in that case clarification of a possible mark against such a reputation would still be of interest to many.

some of us, like me, are new to knives as a whole and have many questions. i am here to learn and not to play politics or to join a cult.

curious
 
curious

Ask any question you want! I'm not a member of any cult. I just don't think a second-hand story, posted almost 2 years ago in a now defunct forum was a possible blight on Spyderco's reputation that many were waiting to see settled. You have a different opinion, so ask away.
 
It's an open forum and your questions were made politely so I don't see why anyone would be offended. In fact as you see, Sal himself answered them and he doesn't seem angry, as far as I noticed.
It is a proven fact that a company earns its succes due to a bunch of devoted, talented and motivated people. Once the business is expanding at the company will come people who not necessarily are committed and skillful but they rather have the talent to make others believe they are this way. Inherently, tensions will appear thus unexpected results (to be more delicate).
 
Hi Curious. No problems on the questions. We have nothing to hide. If it is private info, I will say so.

Hey Bill. Steve Gartin and I were very close at one time. I was the best man at his wedding. He's had a rough go. More than I think anyone deserves. We're no longer close, but I still think of him often.

sal
 
Just an observation...I have always been impressed with the way Sal Glesser conducts himself and his business. His brand of class is a breath of fresh air today's often dog-eat-dog business climate.

I only own one Spyderco knife, a Calypso Jr. I bought my son a Navigator. So I am not a "cult member" either. My tastes in knives tend to be more traditional, but I do want a Kiwi and a Lum Chinese some of these days.

Anyway, I just wanted to express my appreciation for Sal's consistently taking the high road. I am impressed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top