Spyderco s30v Question/Story/Rant

[ZippoThisKnifeThat]

So I was at a local Knife Shop where I live and one of the store clerks is a die hard Benchmade fan. [instant clash/uneasiness lol] I was disturbed to hear from him say that BM's s30v is FAR superior to Spyderco's s30v due to Spyderco's improper heat treatment on their s30v. He claimed that Spyderco uses improper heat treat numbers not maximizing their s30v. He went as far as to say BM's s30v was 90% better. As you all may guess I was pretty defensive and on edge/uneasy/enraged maybe? as he continued to bash Spyderco's steel to BM. Now being a big Spyderco fan I of course did not want to believe this blasphemy, but I did hold my tongue for I am no expert when it comes to heat treatment or Benchmade knives in matter of fact. I feel this guy may have not had all his facts down about Spyderco, I would not expect such a bias from one who is part owner to a Knife Shop.

I hold nothing against Benchmade and I have been more than happy with Spyderco's steels ie. vg10 and s30v, but I have to know [being in the Spyderco sub-forum I know there is Bias, please excuse it] is BM heat treat really that superior??

Please be honest and speak from experience or solid facts, although our Spydies s30v is an amazing steel, is BM's s30v far superior?

My favorite brand is Spyderco, whether this is true or not about the s30v heat treat it will not change my mind about Spyderco. Their knives and steels are top notch and priced the best imho.

 

[3Guardsmen]

So I was at a local Knife Shop where I live and one of the store clerks is a die hard Benchmade fan. [instant clash/uneasiness lol] I was disturbed to hear from him say that BM's s30v is FAR superior to Spyderco's s30v due to Spyderco's improper heat treatment on their s30v. He claimed that Spyderco uses improper heat treat numbers not maximizing their s30v. He went as far as to say BM's s30v was 90% better. As you all may guess I was pretty defensive and on edge/uneasy/enraged maybe? as he continued to bash Spyderco's steel to BM. Now being a big Spyderco fan I of course did not want to believe this blasphemy, but I did hold my tongue for I am no expert when it comes to heat treatment or Benchmade knives in matter of fact. I feel this guy may have not had all his facts down about Spyderco, I would not expect such a bias from one who is part owner to a Knife Shop.

I hold nothing against Benchmade and I have been more than happy with Spyderco's steels ie. vg10 and s30v, but I have to know [being in the Spyderco sub-forum I know there is Bias, please excuse it] is BM heat treat really that superior??

Please be honest and speak from experience or solid facts, although our Spydies s30v is an amazing steel, is BM's s30v far superior?

My favorite brand is Spyderco, whether this is true or not about the s30v heat treat it will not change my mind about Spyderco. Their knives and steels are top notch and priced the best imho.

I would contact Spyderco, find out if this store you were at is in their authorized dealer network, and if so, give Spyderco the name of the employee who told you these things. Perhaps the misguided young lad is in need of some counseling from Spyderco about the dangers of making slanderous statements about their products, if they are in fact dealers of their wares.

As far as Spyderco's S30V goes, I've found it to be every bit the equal of the S30V I have from other makers/manufaturers.:thumbup:

 

[dalefuller]

...As far as Spyderco's S30V goes, I've found it to be every bit the equal of the S30V I have from other makers/manufaturers.:thumbup:

I agree. I've had S30V from just about every prod company that uses it and Spyderco's is top rated IMAO as far as performance and ease of maintenance.

All of my knives get the same kind of usage, so there's no variation in what I do with them. I've never chipped a Spyderco edge (I have had an S30V edge chip on cardboard from another manfacturer) and my Spyderco blades require far less in the way of touchup or actual sharpening than others do.

 

[unit]

I would bet that there *are* heat treats out there that are arguably better for certain tasks than what you find in a production Spyderco. 90%? That might be tough to prove. I have no idea if BM uses some extra-ordinary process.

The real question is if such "better" methods/heat-treats exist, are they actually better for *you*? I have not experienced any short-comings with my Spyderco S30V, so I would have to tell this guy that I really do not care, because I prefer my Spydercos to everything I have seen offered by BM, and then dismiss the whole conversation from my thoughts.

Perhaps I am ignorant, but I presume that you can do a lot with heat treating (in much the same regard that you have options regarding edge grinding). While some processes may be phenomenal for some tasks they may yield very poor results in the "EDC gamut" (that is the full description of what people do with their knives). I can imagine a super hard heat treat and a silly-thin edge could result in an extra ordinary cut or two....would anyone use it in a production knife? Not if your customer wants to cut sheet after sheet of cardboard, rope, etc.

There are lots of sale tactics and some of the biggest FAILURES in my book involve bashing a competitors product. If your product is superior, demonstrate how and why it will serve my needs. If you bash a product that I like, you lose me immediately...I am not saying that there are not products better than Spyderco (in some regards)...I am sure there are, but people that sell such precious blades do not need to bash Spyderco to sell them.

 

[bh49]

I remember back in 2004-2005 most of the companies, including Spyderco and BM had occasional problems with S30V due to heat-treatment or final grinding. Most likely if you do search you will be able to find these threads. But this was 4-5 years ago. This is one of them

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352435&highlight=Heat+treatment+problem

He went as far as to say BM's s30v was 90% better.

Do not argue with this guy. He has no idea what he is talking about.

 

[wongKI]

BM's heat treat may or may not be better. I can probably say for sure that it's not 90 percent better (that's almost twice as good!)

Spyderco's early runs of S30v such as in the Native did have chipping issues. Maybe that was what the gentleman at the store was referring to.

 

[Creepo]

I remember back in 2004-2005 most of the companies, including Spyderco and BM had occasional problems with S30V due to heat-treatment or final grinding. Most likely if you do search you will be able to find these threads. But this was 4-5 years ago.



Do not argue with this guy. He has no idea what he is talking about.

Lol fanboys
I highly doubt anything he said was based on actual facts, he is prob a long time BM supporter and prob has never even owned a single Spyderco. And even if he has, maybe the only one he got was a lemon with bad heat treat 4-5 years ago.

I would contact Spyderco, find out if this store you were at is in their authorized dealer network, and if so, give Spyderco the name of the employee who told you these things. Perhaps the misguided young lad is in need of some counseling from Spyderco about the dangers of making slanderous statements about their products, if they are in fact dealers of their wares.

As far as Spyderco's S30V goes, I've found it to be every bit the equal of the S30V I have from other makers/manufaturers.:thumbup:

+1 I'd recommend this course of action. :thumbup:
Plus I wouldn't personally buy anything from the shop, maybe stop by to fondle a couple knives but never buy anything.

 

[Blownnova]

I would take in a couple of my s30v Spydies that are wicked sharp and have him show me whats superior!? A cutting test of some sort is in order, this type of person will most likely only "believe it if they see it." Surely if hes such a Benchmade fan he has one he will happily put up to such a challenge.

 

[Peter Parker]

Between my 615 and Spyderco Military I do think the 615 is slightly better but it is deffinately apples to oranges! Spyderco's S30V may be slightly softer but it is still bad a$$, also mine is an earlier model but I have never experienced any chipping!

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I would guess that BM and Spyderco quality control on S30V is similar. But I see Sal is on here, so I would defer to him.

I currently have the following folders with S30V

Military, Native, Terzuola slipit
Ritter Griptilian and mini Ritter Griptilian
large micarta Sebenza and small micarta Sebenza
forgot my Buck TNT, I love that folder, how could I forget it? High quality too.

The quality of the blades appears, from use and appearance, to be very similar, and I have not had any problems with any of them.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Zippo,

It is really sad when such absurb lies are told, especially by the owner of a company. If one of our salespeople lied to a customer, that would be their last day.

With that attitude, I doubt that they sell much Spyderco, but I would like to know the name of the dealer. Now that you know to what extent they will lie, you might consider that when visiting their store.

As far as heat treat goes, it is a critical area for Spyderco. We have a special heat treater that is a graduate of the Colorado School of mines. I will personally stack them against any in the world. We work with more different types of steels than most knife companies.

Our "Mule Team" project alone puts us in a better position to understand heat treat than most. I have personally heat treated knives.

You should not have been offended, you should have been laughing to youself at this "salesman". He must be really desperate.

Spyderco is very good at what we do. We have a world-wide reputation for excellent quality. We earned that reputation and we continue to strive for excellence.

sal

 

[ChapmanPreferred]

I have only owned a BM once that had S30V steel and I did not use it or keep it. I owned if for less than 2 weeks and traded it off. No idea how they heat treat or what their target hardness is right now.

Edit: I just check the online "page turn" style product guide and their target range for Rockwell C Scale hardness is 58-60 which seems to be about the same as Spyderco. I also check on Chris Reeve knives website and they have a range for Rockwell C Scale hardness 58-59 in the Sebenza line.

 

[tjsulli790]

I've had quite a bit of experience with a Benchmade Rukus and a Spyderco Manix, both are S30V. I never really noticed any significant differences between the two. Sounds like you were talking to a moron.

 

[Razorsharp1986]

I, from my experience, always considered Spyderco S30V to be thae better one. I remember I've had a Dejavoo that didn't keep an edge for $h!t. Maybe just a lemon, since I've got other BM S30V that do hold the edge just as good as my Spyderco S30V knives.

In reality, I think this steel is awesome! whether it comes from BM or Spyderco. It eventually all comes down to personal preference in design and such.

 

[THG]

I can't say that I've used any BM S30V, but I've used Spyderco S30V in the Native I. It is, by far, my favorite of all the steels I've used including 420HC, VG-10, H1, and ZDP-189.

 

[Gotsouthern]

Having managed a shop for 2 years that sold BM (however they were not under my specific area), I can say they keystone and then some (ie MSRP=wholesale x 2) in their pricing structure and you'd be amazed the dealers who boom those things at or just a tick under MSRP. THAT probably accounts for at least 80% of the aforementioned 90% "superiority" factor lol.

All other things aside, being a super-steel junky and a customer service afficinado (sp?) there's no place else to go other than Spyderco for my money. I have but one BM left and it will shortly disappear from the collection as well. Bang for the buck and build quality wise, there's just no comparison b/w the two companies if you ask me. Not to mention, THE FRIGGIN PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY WILL READ THIS VERY POST!! I couldn't even tell you the first name of BM's president, and if I got a worthy question I can strait up get on this site and PM Sal, that my friends, is exceptional if you ask me. And in and of itself worthy of my business. Thanks.

Tom

Edit: Oh yeah, and my S30V Native stomps a flippin' mud hole in my Mini-Voo S30V in ever respect as far as I've come across.

 

[JNewell]

So I was at a local Knife Shop where I live and one of the store clerks is a die hard Benchmade fan. [instant clash/uneasiness lol] I was disturbed to hear from him say that BM's s30v is FAR superior to Spyderco's s30v due to Spyderco's improper heat treatment on their s30v. He claimed that Spyderco uses improper heat treat numbers not maximizing their s30v. He went as far as to say BM's s30v was 90% better. As you all may guess I was pretty defensive and on edge/uneasy/enraged maybe? as he continued to bash Spyderco's steel to BM. Now being a big Spyderco fan I of course did not want to believe this blasphemy, but I did hold my tongue for I am no expert when it comes to heat treatment or Benchmade knives in matter of fact. I feel this guy may have not had all his facts down about Spyderco, I would not expect such a bias from one who is part owner to a Knife Shop.

I hold nothing against Benchmade and I have been more than happy with Spyderco's steels ie. vg10 and s30v, but I have to know [being in the Spyderco sub-forum I know there is Bias, please excuse it] is BM heat treat really that superior??

Please be honest and speak from experience or solid facts, although our Spydies s30v is an amazing steel, is BM's s30v far superior?

My favorite brand is Spyderco, whether this is true or not about the s30v heat treat it will not change my mind about Spyderco. Their knives and steels are top notch and priced the best imho.

I own plenty of Spyderco and Benchmade knives, among others. I have only three Benchmades with S30V blades, two 940 variants and a 210. I have several Spydercos with S30V blades. Personally, in equivalent product lines, I think there's little to choose, although IMO Spyderco usually provides better value (in other words, equal quality for less cost). However, to your question...

If anything, I have had better luck with Spyderco's S30V blades. The edges on the 940s were for a while very hard to get a good edge on. I was guessing improper heat treat, but it was suggested that it was actually caused by the method used by Benchmade to sharpen blades (which apparently overheats the thinnest part of the edge - which means that portion of the blade is basically being annealed, which essentially means my guess was right as a practical matter). My experience suggests that Spyderco does work harder to get optimal heat treat than most other production companies.

You do have to filter things tell you, not just at B&M stores but everywhere...even here...

I've

 

[DallasSTB]

For all intents and purposes, it is equal between these two quality knifemakers. When the metal was first adopted, there seemed to be sporadic issues of chipping. As the processes have matured with treating this material, the incidences have, IMO, dropped dramatically.

The choice between a BM with S30V and a Spyderco with the same material is almost completely aesthetic and personal. Both make great knives. Anyone who says otherwise has a different agenda.

And - thanks for chiming in Sal. I'm really liking my Caly 3, btw. It's my first Spyderco and is impressive. I may try a Sage next.

...If anything, I have had better luck with Spyderco's S30V blades. The edges on the 940s were for a while very hard to get a good edge on. I was guessing improper heat treat, but it was suggested that it was actually caused by the method used by Benchmade to sharpen blades (which apparently overheats the thinnest part of the edge - which means that portion of the blade is basically being annealed, which essentially means my guess was right as a practical matter). ...

I noticed this also but attributed it to the steep angle that BM grinds, something like 27º or something. Anyway, after I spent some time and got the angle down around 15º (on my Sharpmaker ), it holds a very wicked edge. No chipping or anything. So I won't throw any rocks that direction.

 

[Reeek]

To be honest, I love the so called super steels such as CPM S90V, ZDP, CPM M4, etc and I certainly buy these special steels whenever Spyderco offers them on a knife I really want but S30V on every Spyderco I have used (and that makes several dozen of various models) works so well that I really don't have any true reason to use any other type of steel from Spyderco. The way I typically use my EDC, the "better" steels are simply a luxury and a frivolous pursuit. Spyderco's S30V is damned good stuff and personally I can't see CPM S30V being replaced as the best common steel available for knife blades for a long time and especially the way it 's performed on all my Spydercos. I've not had one bad S30V blade from Sal's team yet.

 

[EDCguy]

I have used both, and I have noticed the difference. I like BM's S30v more that spyderco's. Spyderco's S30v will dull on me faster and it won't sharpen as fast as BMs. I've not had extensive experience with either though. I owned a Dejavoo once, and I own a native. Both were EDCed for a few months-I'm not able to buy knives that often, so I EDC the newest one until I can get a brand new knife.

The Native is still a good deal, probably the best deal for a folder that uses s30v steel and still made in the USA. BUT I like VG-10 better than both steels. Spyderco's VG-10 holds and edge better than s30v, it's more afforadble, and it sharpens just as almost as fast as spydie's s30v.

As far as him saying 90% better? That's bull. On a 1-10 scale I'd give spyderco's s30v a 7.5 and BM's a 9.