Spyderco SAK - a new idea

baraqyal

baraqyal

Joined
Nov 30, 2000
Messages
860
Well, the idea of a SAK from spyderco has been kicked around by some people for a while now. It doesn't seem very plausible as it is right now, due to costs and lack of interest on the part of spyderco.

However, due to the massive weight in my pockets, I would like to see something approximating an SAK, so I've gone through and really looked at what I carry, and how it's used.

Right now, I carry a SAK, a medium knife, a big knife, and usually a Leatherman wave in my backpack. I'd like to see this get down to one knife and one multitool. So what do I want on the spydie SAK-like tool?

First of all, I want a bottle opener. Many are the times I've needed a bottle opener and have been without. I tried carrying one on a keychain, but found that often while drinking, I don't have my keys with me.

Second of all, I think it should have a toothpick and tweezers. I'm pretty sure there's nothing protecting them as intellectual property. It couldn't be all that hard (or expensive) to add them to a zytel handled knife.

My suggestion is: A near 3" blade with a built in bottle opener, and in the handle, a toothpick and a pair of tweezers.

I don't need a can opener, I don't need a woodsaw, I don't need a file, and I don't often use a screwdriver of either variety. Scissors are nice, but more often than not, I find myself just using my knife to cut paper. If I should need any of those things, I always could get my leatherman out. I just don't want to carry them ALL the time.

What I really want is the ability to cut something, open cold beverages, and remove splinters/things stuck in my teeth. And I'd like it to have a reversible pocket clip (right hand/left hand), be a lockback or compression lock, and of course, a spydie hole. Premium steel would be nice too, but I'd settle for even AUS8.

Maybe I'm just nuts, but sometimes simpler is better (look at the ever popular victorinox soldier). Besides, maybe it's a good way for Spyderco to get it's foot in the door of new markets, and to drive back the Swiss.
-- Rob (Hoping for new innovation in the non-MBC sector)

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Me fail english? That's unpossible!
 
I LOVE this idea too, however I'm now convinced of Sal's position that this would not be in Spyderco's best interest. This would be stepping down for them, yet the price would not be on par with other SAK's.

This idea is very ripe - for Victorinox to implement. All they need to do is take one of their larger locking models (Adventurer, Picknicker, Rucksak) and add a clip and a thumbstud to the main blade. All the tools you want (and more) are already there. Check it out at www.swissarmy.com .
 
Man, you guys sure are persistant! I'm told that is a quality trait?

OK, for the purposes of discusion only, let's entertain the thought;

Blade length
Blade steel
Blade style
Handle material
Addtional tools to be included
MSRP
And whatever I'm missing

What "creation/model" would you buy enough of to make the investment in: design, R&D, prototypes, testing, tooling and promotion be successful?

Do you think you/we can agree?
Do you think "we" can design such a knife?

Let's see whatchagot?

sal
 

Blade length 3.5"
Blade steel VG10/BG42
Blade style Clip point/Starmate style
Handle material Lexan/G10/Ti
Addtional tools to be included- Can opener, bottle opener, screw driver 2 flat 1 Philips, toothpick, tweezers, Reemer, sizors, awl, corkscrew.
MSRP Around $100
And whatever I'm missing

Small secondary blade in a spearpoint, or a Dryad style package with the tools?

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
I'm going with simpler-is-better:

Blade length 3"
Blade steel AUS-8
Blade style Clip point
Handle material FRN (Fishy, like Calypso Jr.)
Addtional tools to be included: bottle opener, screw drivers
MSRP Around $75

I think I'm describing a Calypso Jr whose top choil-thing is cut out on the spine for bottle opening, and whose rear-end has a screwdriver in it.
 
Sorry General, I'm with Schmacky!

Blade needs to be a smidgeon under 3" for airline travel.

Steel could be AUS-8 or G-2. Both of these survive dunkings in chlorine pools well (I've done it with my CS Gunsite II and my old Endura, but ATS-55 does not do well). The knife should be as climate resistant as possible.

Blade style? I'd vote for drop point, for sheeple friendliness. A "gentle" clip point would work, though.

Can opener, bottle opener, screwdrivers on each (small and large); an awl would be cool but I could live without it. Other folks want toothpick and tweezers, so that should work. Beyond that, I'm open, but the features should be kept to two or three "thicknesses" at the most. You don't want it getting too thick!

I like Schmackey's idea about the scale texture! Having the finished product resemble a Native or a Delica would be nice.

And the hole! I almost forgot it! Plus, I'd prefer a backlock, but I won't complain if came out with a linerlock. A "Victorinox style" sidelock button would be nice too. Ensure the whole thing slides easily in and out of pockets and purses, preferably with a clip, perhaps a switchable clip!

Keep it simple and try to retail it around $80 or less.

Just my humble Spydersak desires,

Karl

[This message has been edited by Safety Guy (edited 06-20-2001).]
 
Or maybe not design it like a SAK at all (with "thicknesses"). Maybe you could come up with a different way to incorporate all the features in a usable package more resembling something Spyderco would do...

FRN is low cost, but I believe it's not low cost for preproductions. How about aluminum scales? My old, lost Victorinox SAK had red Alox scales, and I liked them a lot. A shape like a Delica or Native but thicker and slightly longer to fit in features?

Or a thicker Dyad? With pivots at both ends?

Can you tell I'm not a knife designer?
smile.gif


One more thing before I let others go at it: can you incorporate a feature or two in the (readily removeable?) pocket clip?

Karl

[This message has been edited by Safety Guy (edited 06-20-2001).]
 
I think it should be a knife first! 3 inch blade (not really three, one of those 2.99999 type deals). Operation, opening, closing, and cutting with the blade should be the main goal of the design. ATS-55 is good, but I'd settle for AUS-8. Steel for the other tools is less important. I think zytel is ideal for this type of knife as it will be heavy if it has other blades. I don't think lots of tools are necesary. A bottle opener, a flathead screwdriver small enough to work as a philips too, maybe scissors. And I like the idea of making the handle a more benign color than black. Sky blue, maybe tan? I know red is reserved for trainers...
It's so awesome that you're actualy listening to this sal. You don't see other knife companies putting up with this! That's why I love spyderco!



------------------
William Callahan

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without
hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd
never expect it."
-Jack Handey

I'm one of those wierdos who likes Zytel.
 
Well, here is my idea. I "borrowed" the image from 1sks.com, but since this is also their site, I hope they don't mind. If they do, email me and I'll take it down immediately. I did some extremely crude image manipulation on the pic of a calypso jr. lightweight (which I'm planing on buying eventually), and combined it with a scan of the bottle opener from my SAK. I have no idea whether or not it would work.

calypso-bottle.jpg


Basically, I think the development costs and effort would be not so bad. I'd prefer a plain edge, but a pic of full serrated was all I could find.

So, here's the tools:
1 calypso sized blade. (2.875")
1 bottle opener
1 toothpick in handle (SAK style)
1 pair tweezers in handle (SAK style)
VG 10 steel
FRN handle
Calypso lightweight MSRP = ~$71, the spydie SAK is similar, so probably like $80

This keeps the knife simple - no major redesigns needed. Also, because I'm not adding extra tools, you won't need a second pivot pin, or a steel divider between the blades. There might be room in the handle to add a removable flat head screwdriver/phillips, or possibly someplace else, but honestly, it's extraneous.

Just add a few bells and whistles to the calypso, and you might have an even more successful knife, and be able to take some of the SAK's market share. Plus, you'll make me and a lot of other people happy. Give it some nice FRN blue or green handles, and wham, you have the next major trend in non-tactical pocket knives.

It's at least worth making a rough prototype - just take a calypso jr. ltwt and cut a bottle opener into it.
smile.gif
You could always make a full on SAK, but at least this model would be a good way to test the waters. Thanks!
-- Rob
 
Hi there, glad to see even more people on the spydersak bandwagon !! As for what I want I refer to my previous drawing http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1718044&a=13204941&p=50028486 + I had another idea from another tool it might be possible to incorporate a coupling for a saw blade ala the new gerber tool (unless that is copyrighted...) it could possibly fit somewere like under the clip or something just another suggestion. Apart from that I'm in the less is more camp. Think the width of the tool should'nt be more than two blades just need something for "urban survival" dayli chores kinda thing.

------------------
Words only go so far.
Experience is the true teacher.

[This message has been edited by DM (edited 06-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DM (edited 06-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DM (edited 06-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by DM (edited 06-21-2001).]
 
In my mind, a SAK must be small and slim so that it can be comfortably carried in your pocket. Otherwise, I would choose a multitool. I think a Dyad Jr (or slightly bigger) knife which is like a Victorinox Tinker would be perfect. Keep the plain edge and serrated blades of the Dyad Jr, and then add a can opener/screwdriver, bottle opener/screwdriver as the two extra main blades, and then philips head and awl on the other side. On the top, put tweezers and a small eyeglass/jeweler's screwdriver. That would be a perfect knife for me. The steel should be something like AUS-6 which will not rust.

If it doesn't make it too much more expensive, maybe the main blades could be of higher quality such as ATS-55. I think (from a marketing point of view) it is more important to keep the price down to say US$80-100 if it is still profitable than use good steel since that way, you could attract the SAK group to Spydies. I'm sure that once they buy the Spyderco SAK, they will buy others as well - nobody can stop at one!
 
Blade length
2.5"-<3"

Blade steel
Gin-1 for reasonable toughness and stain resistance or VG-10 for that super steel appeal.

Blade style
Calypso Jr style lockback or a rolling lock to free up room on the backstrap that a lockback would use.

Handle material
FRN/fish scale for lower cost or G-10 for grip; a special edition Micarta would be cool too.

Addtional tools to be included
one each flat blade and phillips screwdriver, can opener, bottle opener, tweezers, and toothpick. Ideally, 2 or more of the tools would be combined. I'm not very inventive, so I'm thinking like the Victorinox tools.

MSRP
$90 or FRN, $105(?) for G-10. That Spyderwrench is $120 MSRP.

And whatever I'm missing
I'm not sure that an FRN handle would be stiff enough for the twisting of a screwdriver unless there are metal liners (Ti would be sweet but probably too expensive). It would definately have a clip and opening hole, though a smaller one like the Mini-Dyad would provide a lower profile hump. I'd like to keep the thickness to a minimum, so that's why I didn't specify too many tools. If I didn't care about size, a saw, scissors, and hex/torx bit holder would get my votes. Then it's starting to get close to a Spyderwrench.

How about a blue handle like that of the Spyderco logo?

gm
 
Fair point on the under 3" blade! I was thinking in terms of a knife to do most jobs all the time! For me a sub 3" knife is often not enough to do the job. However, it would in hindsight be a better choice for this blade. Who says I don't listen
wink.gif
!!!

------------------
Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
3" Calypso Jr. style blade
ATS-55 or AUS-8 (VG10 would be great but adds to the overall cost).
FRN handle with the volcano or fish-scale pattern (or maybe wave-like grooves).
Any color except BLACK (maybe lime-green).
Spyder-hole and pocket-clip.
Lockback, not liner-lock.
Besides the main blade:
standard screwdriver-bottle opener combo(like a Victorinox),
small flat phillips (like the Leatherman Micra),
a sturdy awl (like the Vic Soldier), toothpick and tweezers.
Try to keep the price under 100.00.

Sal, this would be THE knife people would replace their SAKs with!

Good luck,
Allen.



[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 06-23-2001).]
 
A Spyderco SAK would be a must carry for me.
The blade and tools I would like to see would be...
-A 3 inch drop point blade of AUS-8 or ATS-55 with lock
-FRN handle of red/blue color
-Flat and Phillips head screwdriver.
-Can/bottle opener
-Scissors-one of the most used tools on my Wenger SAK
-Nail file
-A smaller blade with Spyder serrations would be a nice addition, but an extra.
A Spyderco SAK for $100 or less would be a must have for me...probably more than one.
biggrin.gif



[This message has been edited by Aries59 (edited 06-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Aries59 (edited 06-23-2001).]
 
I like the idea of a Dyad type knife.

* 2.875" Max. blade, airline etc... friendly
* AUS8A Steel, Modest cost
* Drop point blade of old hunter model, or Wenger Jr.
* Make blade # 2 multi-purpose tool at tip with a saw on the remainder of blade.
(V-Nox Saffari)
* Tweezer & Toothpick in rear of handle.
* Optional tip up/down carry.
* Lanyard hole???
* Zytel handles/lockback D. Boye style
Looking at all this may help minimize costs
 
Blade length *just under 3"
Blade steel *VG10 or 440V
Blade style *Calypso Jnr C52BK
Handle material *FRN with a texture
Addtional tools to be included *toothpick and tweezers
MSRP $100US


What "creation/model" would you buy enough of to make the investment in: design, R&D, prototypes, testing, tooling and promotion be successful? *Calypso JNR C52BK or Native C41BK

Do you think you/we can agree? *yes
Do you think "we" can design such a knife? *yes



------------------
Ricki
info@outdooredge.com.au
outdooredge.com.au
 
This might be a little freaky, but why add a screwdriver when the tip can be made like one at the outset?
 
Perhaps someone more computer savy than myself could post one of those lists where we could click in order of what would be most/least important, after the actual blade. I would say Delica handle, Wharncliffe blade (Delicas are 3" if that's important--how many frequent fliers are buyers?), scissors, tweezers in the back end, I don't use a toothpick. To sell mainstream (and be cost effective) a hip/updated yet practical SAK is necessary. My red handled Snap-it with black Kraton inserts always looked pretty sharp to me. Leave the snap off and still go with the Delica handle shape. Spyder hole in 1/2" (13mm) hex shape. Maybe a 1/4" hex hole too, next to it.
 
That hex shape is an interesting idea.

I wouldn't like a screwdriver tip on the main blade. Remember, "tactical" when necessary, but looking as functional and innocent as possible.

Karl
 
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