Spyderco Southard... IKBS!

Hairlesstwinkie

Hairlesstwinkie

Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
1,562
So I decided to break the bearings out of the cages. I had one extra set of washers, so I had some extra bearings to play with. It's a definitely improvement. I would share pictures, but it's such a pain to reassemble, so no pictures. You guys know what IKBS looks like on the inside anyway. It's an idea for people who wish to improve the action of their Southard.
 
Shouldn't an IKBS system need at least 10 bearings per track? The track not being full with loose bearings would mean they could bunch up.
 
I need another 4 or so bearings per side to get a full track, but so far it's flipping better than the caged bearings.
 
That's odd. I thought that caged bearings had just as low if not less (fewer points of contact) of a friction coefficient coupled with a better design for lubricant (the cage should be a hair large than the ball, giving the bearing a small reservoir for lubricant) all in a package that is as easy to disassemble as washers.

Correct me if I am wrong. Bearings are not a field of expertise for me, I am still pretty new to them.
 
That's what I thought too, but the Southard bearing washers are not ex like KVT. One thing that I've noticed with my Southard's washers is that the ball is loose in the cage, but they will favor one side over the other to a point where only the plastic is in contact. This is augmented by the extruded plastic ring that's on each of the bearings. With KVT, I notice that it's full metal on metal contact because the bearings are much larger and they don't have the extruded ring. When I had switched to an after market caged bearings, they did better as well, but currently the loose bearings in IKBS format is flipping the best and the blade would drop upon unlocking the knife. The stock bearing and the after market bearings wouldn't drop the blade upon unlocking the knife.
 
My southard drops when the lock is disengaged whether with dry or lubed standard captured bearings.
 
Ive worked on a bunch. They all work to full capacity as is. There is no advantage. Unless yours had issues as you stated, they all free fall when the tension is tight enough for no blade play.
All you needed was to put in the new set of washers. That was the issue. Ive seen the same on the 0561. New washers and your fixed. They can be hit or miss sometimes.
I am sure you are having fun with it though.
 
Looks like I might have had an oddball then. There is a definitely a difference with my caged bearings vs the free bearings. I'm still shy 4 per side too. I expected them to bunch up, but they're just flipping fine.

Ballablades, I'm having a lot of fun messing with this Southard. It has been an ongoing project since last March.
 
A year is a long time. Did you customize anything else. Id like to see a picture if you did. Id like to see the inside of yours where you put the balls. Pictures make threads 1000X better.
One thing I like about the southard is they add the steel insert washers against the TI to prevent wear. That would be smart on the new ZT knives when they come out.
Outside with the kids.
Have a great day hairytwinkie.
 
BellaBlades said:
A year is a long time. Did you customize anything else. Id like to see a picture if you did. Id like to see the inside of yours where you put the balls. Pictures make threads 1000X better.
One thing I like about the southard is they add the steel insert washers against the TI to prevent wear. That would be smart on the new ZT knives when they come out.
Outside with the kids.
Have a great day hairytwinkie.
Click to expand...

Do the current ZT KVT knives not have steel washers between the bearings and the Ti?
 
I cannot say all.
I know that the 0801 I worked on and all of the BW and standard ZT 0561 did not.
Maybe some do. But I can sure as heck say, I hope I dont have to add them to my 0562. If im still allowed to get it.
Matt
 
BellaBlades said:
I cannot say all.
I know that the 0801 I worked on and all of the BW and standard ZT 0561 did not.
Maybe some do. But I can sure as heck say, I hope I dont have to add them to my 0562. If im still allowed to get it.
Matt
Click to expand...

That's very interesting, thanks for the info.
 
I dont see it being an issue short term or even if you just use it for only cutting. But it does wear in after a while. It is just a nice precaution to take. Even some Chinese, Japenese made knives with bearings I have seen in videos, use the extra metal liner to prevent wear or damage.
 
Last I saw, KVT was designed with a plastic housing so the balls never wear (rubbing on metal they would wear faster). That is weird with the Southard bearings not making contact on both sides. My Domino makes normal contact on both sides like my 801, the 801 just has a better bearing system.
 
The bearings rub against both sides. Both against the steel blade and the Titanium. Thus most knives add a steel insert/washer to the TI side as well.
The southard makes contact on both sides. But they add a steel ( very thin) washer to the Titanium side so it does not wear into or damage the titanium lockside with use.
Im sure there are pictures out there.
 
BellaBlades said:
The bearings rub against both sides. Both against the steel blade and the Titanium. Thus most knives add a steel insert/washer to the TI side as well.
The southard makes contact on both sides. But they add a steel ( very thin) washer to the Titanium side so it does not wear into or damage the titanium lockside with use.
Im sure there are pictures out there.
Click to expand...

I have probably done the equivalent of a year's worth of flipping (for sane people) on my 801 I have had for a few months and there is little wear aside from a shiny spot where the bearings roll. No noticeable wear, no groove. If this is any indicator, this knife should last a good 10 or more years before there is any serious wear warranting repair for the bearing tracks. Considering how little wear the bearings contribute when lubricated, I don't really see much of a need for the steel inserts in the bearing recesses.
 
dkb45 said:
I have probably done the equivalent of a year's worth of flipping (for sane people) on my 801 I have had for a few months and there is little wear aside from a shiny spot where the bearings roll. No noticeable wear, no groove. If this is any indicator, this knife should last a good 10 or more years before there is any serious wear warranting repair for the bearing tracks. Considering how little wear the bearings contribute when lubricated, I don't really see much of a need for the steel inserts in the bearing recesses.
Click to expand...

There shouldn't be any problem with a regular Ti interface, but steel washers are an easy addition that improves wear resistance while somewhat "idiot proofing" the interface. As an example, if an idiot over tightened the pivot there could be damage from the bearings being pressed into the Ti. McMaster recommends small roller bearings run on "material that is hardened to Rockwell C58-C64 with a surface finish of 16 microns."

Besides this, it should be noted that bearings aren't the same as high lubricity washers. In fact, it is friction that drives bearings to work properly. Bearings should ROLL on flat surfaces, having too much lubrication may cause the bearings to SLIP instead of rolling. This also causes premature wear. Ideal bearings would run on perfectly flat surfaces that still have high friction coefficients.

This brings me to another benefit of steel inserts. You can polish them to greatly reduce surface roughness, and this will effectively minimize wear. With pockets in the Ti slabs, it is very difficult to polish them to the same surface roughness. I hope this helps.

EDIT: I forgot another important component that I wanted to discuss. The titanium slabs are the weakest part of your interface. When it wears out (eventually could happen, but probably never in reality) you would have to replace your handle slabs. If you have steel inserts, you will only have to replace the bearings or the steel washer. Wear components like this substantially improve longevity of mechanical systems.
 
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