Spyderco Super Blue vs. ZDP-189

[RobbW]

I'm looking at the Ladybug and see that it's offered in Hitachi Super Blue laminate and ZDP-189. What are the strengths of each, and which would you choose?

Thanks!

 

[Surfingringo]

Superblue is easier to sharpen and will take a atom splitting edge...ZDP should hold an edge a bit longer if cutting abrasive media. I would choose superblue for my uses.

 

[RobbW]

Thanks, Surfingringo! I'm looking for a pure slicer, so Super Blue sounds like it's more for me, with ZDP later on in a Manbug or Dragonfly. Appreciate the response, and I've always wanted to play with blue or white steels to see what they are about.

 

[3rdGenRigger]

SuperBlue is awesome and I have a SB Ladybug. It is a slicing machine. You know about the White steel also so I'll assume you know that SB isn't stainless, whereas ZDP is "Technically" stainless, but is one of the less "Stainless" stainless steels due to the extremely high carbon content. The laminate on the SB version helps with corrosion but you may want to stick it in an orange or an onion for 30-45 minutes to force a patina. It's dry here, and I did it to both of my SB knives, and they're proving more corrosion resistant than the SB Delica I gave my dad which has no forced patina. SuperBlue also has higher apex stability and will hold up better at acute edge angles, but as Lance pointed out, it won't hold an edge as long cutting abrasive materials like cardboard (Which I can attest to, though it's still far from a slouch). However, when cutting certain materials a carbon steel will be better...push cutting hard materials like whittling wood is one such example where SB would likely hold up better than ZDP. I'm sure you'll enjoy whichever you choose...everyone should have a Ladybug/Manbug/Jester on their keys.

 

[RobbW]

SuperBlue also has higher apex stability and will hold up better at acute edge angles, but as Lance pointed out, it won't hold an edge as long cutting abrasive materials like cardboard (Which I can attest to, though it's still far from a slouch). However, when cutting certain materials a carbon steel will be better...push cutting hard materials like whittling wood is one such example where SB would likely hold up better than ZDP. [/IMG][/URL]

Thanks for the great info, 3GR! That's interesting about the apex stability. Have you tried to push SB to its acute-angle limits? With Dozier's D2, I sharpen to just 13-or-so-degrees per side, then get years of touch ups on the 15-degree Sharpmaker sticks. I've never had problems with chipping or rolling over and I like pure slicers.

 

[sodak]

Thanks for the great info, 3GR! That's interesting about the apex stability. Have you tried to push SB to its acute-angle limits? With Dozier's D2, I sharpen to just 13-or-so-degrees per side, then get years of touch ups on the 15-degree Sharpmaker sticks. I've never had problems with chipping or rolling over and I like pure slicers.

Now that's a great idea with the Doziers, thanks! I'm going to try that on some of mine!

 

[3rdGenRigger]

I have not...I use a SharpMaker and love it, but it limits me to 30 or 40 degrees unless I try to freehand more acutely which is something I have yet to endeavour to persue. I haven't done much whittling at all to be honest. Just a little bit here and there, and not enough for the blade steel to be a really relevant factor. At work I end up cutting plastic and cardboard mostly (Plastic bags, as well as the most heavy duty UV rated zip ties you can get, and the plastic jacket of many different types of copper cable, coaxial and solid grounding cable), as well as cutting vinyl electrical tape, rubber tape, and butyl rubber, actual rubber etc. I do love ZDP for its edge retention (Many don't like it because it takes a long time to sharpen if you let it get very dull), but SuperBlue is so much easier to sharpen that it redeems itself in that respect completely IMO, even if I have to sharpen it two or three times as often.

All that said, I don't use my keychain knives for hard cutting because I always have at least one full sized Spyderco Clipit on my person, and sometimes a large and small pairing on top of the always present keychain knife (ParaMilitary2 and Techno combo, or Military and SE Dragonfly Salt just for example), and I'm basing my experience on my full sized SuperBlue and ZDP knives...the keychain knife is there more for an emergency or for opening boxes in front of sheeple etc.

If you like really aggressive slicers and corrosion resistance isn't an issue for you I'd personally go SuperBlue for the Ladybug. It's a ferocious pocket scalpel, and especially if you prefer fine edges over coarse edges it will be the right choice. And there's always the reality that the SuperBlue version is a sprint of 1200 pieces if I remember correctly, whereas the ZDP version is regular production so if you change your mind at a later date it will be a lot easier to find a ZDP version down the road, and the SuperBlue will hold its value better if you decide you don't like it (Unlikely IMO).

 

[RobbW]

Thanks again 3GR, I appreciate your knowledge. I did want a pure slicer, and wanted to try SB, so I got the SB Ladybug since the blade steel in that is thinner than the Manbug or Dragonfly. Then I got a Dragonfly in ZDP because ZDP is more wear resistant and I'll put the Dragonfly to harder use. Also, I got free shipping over the $99+ combined price--though I know that's more of an excuse to follow the BFC "when in doubt, buy both" rule. I really did want both steels and knives, and appreciate the help in sorting which combination was best for me.

I always have a Queen D2 or GEC 1095 with me, so it will be fun to compare the performance and maintenance to those.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I am very fond of both blade-steels. For general carry, I prefer the ZDP as some have said. Do realize that the Super Blue will patina pretty rapidly if given kitchen duty. I would advise a "forced" patina right away in order that your knife-blade doesn't "smell" when first introduced to acidic veggies or meats. Just stab a few tomatoes or potatoes or pineapple, apples, whatever, or just put the fresh blade in a glass of vinegar for an hour or so. The forced patina is actually a micro-layer of "rust" that tends to diminish further oxidation with use.
My wife was quite unhappy (the nasty smell when fresh carbon steel hits acid) when she first used my new 1084-carbon steel blade to cut up some tomatoes. I gave the new blade a dose of everything I could find and, after an hour, it was "fixed" and no longer smelled. (Now, she loves it.)

 

[hank_rearden]

even if we assume the SB will beat zdp in (initial) sharpness at very acute angles, zdp has far too many advantages over a tungsten-reinforced carbon steel. one is price. another is availability.

 

[Surfingringo]

even if we assume the SB will beat zdp in (initial) sharpness at very acute angles, zdp has far too many advantages over a tungsten-reinforced carbon steel. one is price. another is availability.

What about ease of sharpening Hank?

 

[NeilB]

Just my own experience, but I've found the tungsten alloys, like M4 or M390, to sharpen easily to a very fine edge.

 

[hank_rearden]

What about ease of sharpening Hank?

let's assume zdp is a b__ch to re-profile. it is, but all you need are a couple of stones or sand paper. it doesn't give you trouble like those high-vanadium steels.

also, get this: while zdp is hard to re-profile, it's so easy to maintain and touch-up. just a slab of oiled glass will do, or cotton denim cloth stretched over a block of wood with metal polish, will bring back the hair-splitter following heavy use.

 

[Surfingringo]

let's assume zdp is a b__ch to re-profile. it is, but all you need are a couple of stones or sand paper. it doesn't give you trouble like those high-vanadium steels.

also, get this: while zdp is hard to re-profile, it's so easy to maintain and touch-up. just a slab of oiled glass will do, or cotton denim cloth stretched over a block of wood with metal polish, will bring back the hair-splitter following heavy use.

Right on. I don't have much experience with it...probably need to pick some up. It has a reputation as being difficult to sharpen but I find things like that tend to get greatly exaggerated. I do know that Superblue is very easy to maintain.

 

[3rdGenRigger]

ZDP takes longer to sharpen than S30V or VG-10 for sure, but it's not too bad because you don't need to sharpen it very often.

 

[Threethreethree]

ZDP just grinds fine with sic sandpaper, much easier than s30v, the burr removal is also easier and much less finicky and there isnt much issues to polish it.
I also think the reputation of being unbearable to maintain is a plain myth because people tend to overthink about the hardness.
It is true it has a glassy feeling when sharpened over ceramics though
ZDP is a strange animal, it will retain a very fine edge for long yet once that fine edge is gone there is no 'working edge' kicking and it feels smooth.