Spyderco Taiwan factory

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I've just purchased a spyderco sage 2 which is manufactured in Taiwan. I know that spyderco's knives from Taiwan are just as good as those made in the U.S. but something I noticed sparked my interest. The blade steel used for the sage 2 is cpm-s30v an American made steel. How can it be more cost efficient to ship the materials overseas to be made and then ship the knives back? Wouldn't just making it here since they already have the materials be easier? I'd love to hear your thoughts
 
Spyderco has stated many times that the cost is not the motivating factor in using that taiwan factory. Its because of the quality they produce at and because their golden facility is producing at max capacity.
 
All those container ships that come over from China have to go back. Shipping to Taiwan makes sense for things like this.
 
Taiwan does not have a steel industry as developed as the U.S. or Japan. Hence, nearly all Taiwan made knives as OEM for
US companies use U.S. or Japanese imported steels.
 
not only that but this is being looked at as a situation where spyderco is importing the steel themselves. We honestly dont know what arrangement they have with Joti industries. Joti makes knives for numerous companies so I would have to assume they are importing and stocking a variety of steels themselves. I cant say for sure that there hasnt been any effort on spydercos behalf to import their own steel if they got a good price but Who really knows. The market has changed. Its no longer a matter of usa materials staying in america. If we can get bohler in the states, then china and taiwan can source cpm steels.
 
PURPLEDC said:
not only that but this is being looked at as a situation where spyderco is importing the steel themselves. We honestly dont know what arrangement they have with Joti industries. Joti makes knives for numerous companies so I would have to assume they are importing and stocking a variety of steels themselves. I cant say for sure that there hasnt been any effort on spydercos behalf to import their own steel if they got a good price but Who really knows. The market has changed. Its no longer a matter of usa materials staying in america. If we can get bohler in the states, then china and taiwan can source cpm steels.
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Which other companies use Joti Industries as an OEM?
 
Hey, I love Spyderco knives, whether they are from Golden or Seki City or Taichung. But many of my favorite models come from Taichung. The fit and finish is impeccable.
 
I know buck either still does or at least has. They made the handles for some mayo models and their tempest assisted openers. I know those are "usa made" knives but in those cases it doesnt mean 100%. Im not 100% positive but I think some bokers like the kwaiken flipper are made there. I suspect certain other companies but its based more on knife forensics rather than any hard evidence. When you have taken apart as many knives as I have you start to see the little details between brands that tie them together. In some cases it can be dismissed as a matter of two companies sharing a parts source. But every facility that manufactures knives I have found has a signature style if you will on how they do certain things. Now I will say that I dont think all of the knives manufactured by Joti are the same quality. In other words just because a $40 buck is made in the same plant as a southard doesnt mean one is overpriced and that they are equals. Simply that they were made by the same group. If you take a look at jotis website and look through their pictures you may find a good amount of familiar faces if you put the pieces together in your mind.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I know buck either still does or at least has. They made the handles for some mayo models and their tempest assisted openers. I know those are "usa made" knives but in those cases it doesnt mean 100%. Im not 100% positive but I think some bokers like the kwaiken flipper are made there. I suspect certain other companies but its based more on knife forensics rather than any hard evidence. When you have taken apart as many knives as I have you start to see the little details between brands that tie them together. In some cases it can be dismissed as a matter of two companies sharing a parts source. But every facility that manufactures knives I have found has a signature style if you will on how they do certain things. Now I will say that I dont think all of the knives manufactured by Joti are the same quality. In other words just because a $40 buck is made in the same plant as a southard doesnt mean one is overpriced and that they are equals. Simply that they were made by the same group. If you take a look at jotis website and look through their pictures you may find a good amount of familiar faces if you put the pieces together in your mind.
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That's very interesting, thank you. Looking through the Joti website I saw handle liners that looked reminiscent of the Lonewolf T2 and T3, and a blade that looked like it belonged to a CRKT M-16. I think it's really kind of cool how a lot of different knife companies have products with components that originated from the same company.
 
On the Joti website there are also blades with pivot holes that look like they were designed for the paul axial lock, so perhaps those were also for Lonewolf models.
 
I think its pretty commonplace that even in products that are "USA" made you will have non essentials that are outsourced and imported. And it is very interesting to see the various companies tied into each other via those resources. What I find even more interesting is just how much variability there can be in quality between the brands even knowing that. Kinda makes you wonder if there is more in the name than we care to admit. But admittedly no amount of good parts can make up for poor assembly and set up. So Its not entirely surprising to me that two brands using the same factories can vary in quality. Its just one of the many mysteries that interest me in this hobby. I am cursed with the desire to know the details most companies would like to keep private. I like knowing how and why something ticks. I cant just appreciate that it does.
 
I spoke to Sal about this when I visited him at Spyderco a couple months ago. He said the Taichung factory had recently committed to making nothing but Spyderco knives now and he, in turn, plans to feed them with more knives than ever before in order to show them the same support they are showing him. He went on to talk about the way the quality of life has improved for the owner and his wife who used to live in a room on top of the factory and now have a more comfortable home and a good car. He wants to continue their success and grow the good relationship they have.
He said that there are things they can do better at home in Golden (mostly in the areas of design and testing) but there are also things (like complex precision machining) that they can do better at the Taichung facility. He used the rounded Ti sides of the Slysz Bowie as an example of the kind of difficult precision work that the Taichung factory can do better than they can in Golden.
 
TheGearGuy said:
I spoke to Sal about this when I visited him at Spyderco a couple months ago. He said the Taichung factory had recently committed to making nothing but Spyderco knives now and he, in turn, plans to feed them with more knives than ever before in order to show them the same support they are showing him. He went on to talk about the way the quality of life has improved for the owner and his wife who used to live in a room on top of the factory and now have a more comfortable home and a good car. He wants to continue their success and grow the good relationship they have.
He said that there are things they can do better at home in Golden (mostly in the areas of design and testing) but there are also things (like complex precision machining) that they can do better at the Taichung facility. He used the rounded Ti sides of the Slysz Bowie as an example of the kind of difficult precision work that the Taichung factory can do better than they can in Golden.
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This!
Haven't had an qc issues as of yet although some of the prices for the taichung knives are a bit pricey for where they are made imo!
 
instructed2 said:
I think it's really kind of cool how a lot of different knife companies have products with components that originated from the same company.
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It's not just parts, in most cases it's the entire knife. This kind of thing has been going on since the late 1970s, back when Taiwan was
not yet a player and China was still industrially in the stone age. About a week ago I was sitting across from Mr. Yuhei Sakai at the G.Sakai factory in Seki Japan. He was examining each Spyderco Delica 4 before packing it and would occasionally hand one to me and
tell me to test cut a piece of paper. To his left were boxes of SOG Vulcans, and to his right, boxes of SOG Visionary IIs. While in some cases one can find similarities and "clues" to suspect the same OEM source, the only way to be sure is to know the OEM manufacturer or
be very close with the importing client, as they are hardly ever willing to publically disclose that information. Fallkniven may be the only
exception that I'm aware of.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Spyderco has stated many times that the cost is not the motivating factor in using that taiwan factory. Its because of the quality they produce at and because their golden facility is producing at max capacity.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it has to do with the factory being in a free trade zone. US (for example) based companies can take materials and basically import the goods to the Taiwanese free trade zone, have the goods manufactured by Taiwanese workers, and then immediately re-exported to the US (or wherever the stuff is going) without paying any duty or tariffs on either side. Countries allow these free trade zones and the importation/exportation without tariffs because it brings in jobs which boosts the economy in the host country more than the tariffs alone could do. The US also has free trade zones and they provide jobs to Americans just the same as Taiwanese free trade zones provide jobs to the Taiwanese. Though I don't understand why anyone would really use US free trade zones considering the harsh taxes and fees associated with employing US workers in America.

The only cost is shipping which I'm sure is mitigated by the lower labor costs. What they get in return is a quality product probably produced faster and cheaper than could be done in the states. The factory can also more than likely handle an ever increasing work load and the obligatory work space necessary and spyderco doesn't need to pay the overhead found here in the US including property taxes, health insurance, high construction costs, etc. associated with the stifling economic conditions found in the US. If it were cheaper to expand here in the US and employ more US workers with better technology and better abilities to hire employees who do quality work and fire employees who do shoddy work without fear of litigious attorneys watching everything a company does, then I'm sure the Golden plant would be massive already.

I applaud Sal for keeping quite a bit of what they do here in the states in spite of all the obstacles set in front of them.
 
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bodog said:
I'm sure it has to do with the factory being in a free trade zone. US (for example) based companies can take materials and basically import the goods to the Taiwanese free trade zone, have the goods manufactured by Taiwanese workers, and then immediately re-exported to the US (or wherever the stuff is going) without paying any duty or tariffs on either side. Countries allow these free trade zones and the importation/exportation without tariffs because it brings in jobs which boosts the economy in the host country more than the tariffs alone could do. The US also has free trade zones and they provide jobs to Americans just the same as Taiwanese free trade zones provide jobs to the Taiwanese. Though I don't understand why anyone would really use US free trade zones considering the harsh taxes and fees associated with employing US workers in America.

The only cost is shipping which I'm sure is mitigated by the lower labor costs. What they get in return is a quality product probably produced faster and cheaper than could be done in the states. The factory can also more than likely handle an ever increasing work load and the obligatory work space necessary and spyderco doesn't need to pay the overhead found here in the US including property taxes, health insurance, high construction costs, etc. associated with the stifling economic conditions found in the US. If it were cheaper to expand here in the US and employ more US workers with better technology and better abilities to hire employees who do quality work and fire employees who do shoddy work without fear of litigious attorneys watching everything a company does, then I'm sure the Golden plant would be massive already.

I applaud Sal for keeping quite a bit of what they do here in the states in spite of all the obstacles set in front of them.
Click to expand...

I agree with your points and just want to add that it isn't just regulation in the US that is an obstacle, Colorado is one of the worst states for business and is getting worse as the liberal influence becomes stronger and stronger there. I've heard people call it "California East", that's pretty accurate.
 
With the many requests over the last few months, what part of "No political discussion" in GKD is so hard to understand? Take it to the appropriate section and stop ruining threads with political speculations and/or opinions.
 
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