Stabbing qualities of the Spyderco Military?

H

Horus

Joined
Apr 10, 2001
Messages
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I am interested in experiences and opinions regarding the stabbing qualities of the Spyderco Military, in particular the stability of the tip.
Did someone make bad testing experiences, like a broken or a bent tip by reason of a hard stab?

Horus
 
BTW, the handle is very secure for executing this 'hard stab', at least in my experience. I've always thought of the Military as a fine cutting instrument that has been overbuilt for strength. I am almost certain that executing 'hard stabs' was not one of its design parameters. That does not mean that it cannot be done, but it becomes clear when examining the needle point tip, which does not appear exclusively designed for 'hard stabbing'. Still, yu can do a lot of other practical things with such a fine point. For a hard use 'stabbing point', something with a tanto point comes to mind though.

Wouter
 
Hello,

IMHO the Military is one of the best folder for high penetration.

thank you for the link !

cheers,

JM
 
I'm with Mr. Blonde, Military certainly is designed for cutting rather that for hard stabbing. I would advise Starmate as better stabber.
 
Test! Test!

I don't own either knife. Just looking at them, I'd assume the Starmate has a stronger point, while the Military has better stabbing penetration. If I were a betting man, I'd bet that the STarmate had the higher chance of making it through sheetmetal with an undamaged tip. But making it through something like soft body armor or leather, where obviously neither point would be damaged, the Military would have the better penetration. All that is nothing but guesses, BTW. I'll be looking forward to reading the head-to-head stabbing competition report :)
 
I had not mentioned the reason for my question, therefore the following supplement.

I had a diversity of opinion with “The General” concerning the stabbing qualities of the Spyderco Military and for that reason I compare visual (unfortunately I do not possess a gauge) different knives regarding back and shape with the Military. To my surprise the tip of the Military is not that as weak as if you only look at the Military blade. I thought maybe this knive is still suitable for harder stabs and combined with the slashing potential it’s a great fighting knife.

Thanks for the replies.
Deon, thanks for the link.

Horus
 
It's quite naturally, well known and rather not worth to discuss: thin, pointy point means better penetration with less force but at the same time it is weaker and more prone to break if hits hard target. Especially if this hit will be directed obliquely, generating some lateral load at the tip. The best penetrates the needle, the strongest point has chisel with no point at all, right?

The original question was asked about "hard stabbing", isn't it? This kind of knife use is rather rare looking from utility standpoint. Of course it is possible to imagine hard stabbing into tires, plastic or steel drums but it seems more like sabotage than utility ;)

1/3
 
In very most cases "hard stabbing" means certain fighting techniques against live body - man, dog, bear, etc. I don't want to analyze and explain here quite messy things but believe me - hard stabbing into live body is not the same as into old phone books, stack of cardboard or sawdust full dummy. To get a small bit better picture please imagine your phonebooks wet and put some thick bones (not boiled!) inside the stack. Now cover it with fresh pigskin - not smoked, not boiled and certainly not imitated with old leather jacket. Now cover all with some old clothing and put onto pockets some coins, keys and similar mess and put around the leather belt with decent metal buckle. OK, the dummy is ready but it is just half of simulation.

2/3
 
Now please imagine your assistant brandishing this dummy in pretty chaotic way and making very violent movement when he or she feels the stab. And now - bang with full force!
BTW, it's close to impossible to dose your force moderately being in real life-saving fight conditions.

What will occur with your Military tip in this simulation? Maybe it will survey but greatly probably it will be broken at about 10-15 mm from tip (enough leverage and still small crosscut area).
BTW2, It's nothing magical with steel toughness multiplied with crosscut square - Military point is exactly as week (or as strong :)) as it looks.

Sure, if you are in dead end and have to use your knife to save your life each knife is better than nails and teeth, but in my opinion Starmate here is better than Military.
BTW3, I would dare to say than Starmate tip can be more penetrative than it looks - nicely dropped spine, false edge etc. But this is the topic for another discussion, I don't want to bore someone deadly ;)

3/3
 
I have to admit I'm puzzled by the frequency with which power is associated with stabbing. I admit it may prove necessary when using a knife with a tip not designed for effective stabbing. But, when a knife has apparently been designed with stabbing/thrusting as a probable task, I tend to think of it as a "touch" weapon.

Sure, change in pockets, belt buckles, etc., will certainly stop or deflect an attempted stab. If the point is very weak, or the thrust is extremely vigorous, then I expect it might break, if it doesn't deflect. Then again, if the user of a knife made for stabbing thinks of his blade as a touch weapon, the attempted targets are not going to be areas where metal may interfere. The same goes for bones. I have no idea how much of the front/side of the human body area is devoted to rib, and how much to the space between. But, if one does not have pinpoint accuracy coupled with an excellent knowledge of anatomy, the rib area just isn't a realistic stabbing target.

The fact that a knife has a point designed for stabbing doesn't by any means mean that it wasn't also designed for slashing as well. If a knife is genuinely sharp, then again, I see slashing as more of a touch effort than a power situation. Sure, adrenaline is likely to play a role. But, these are knives we're talking about. Not broadswords or cutlasses. We aren't like to face much armor. Yeah, leather may offer some real protection against slashing. So maybe if an opponent is wearing leather one uses mostly stabs? Or maybe slashes at areas not covered by leather?

Am I missing something here?
 
Whoa Sergiusz, that's a bit more detail than I need. Besides, I would never attack a poor, defenseless, soaking wet telephone book unless he looked at me funny! (;
 
Just to add my 0,002 EURO. Will the Military stab, certianly. Is it an excellent stabber? yes, most definitely.

Does the tip stand up to repeated stabbing, into hard objects? Mmmm, probably not.

Still a damn fine knife!

Wouter
 
For the record, my 'point' was that the more slender tip of the Military made it better for penetration and thus a better fighting knife IMHO. My other 'point' was that while the Starmate is a great folder (I own 2 Militaries and 1 Starmate) I would use the Military for general use and self defence, while the stronger tip on the Starmate makes it better for a harder use utility/camping knife.

Both are great knives, but I think the Military is the more 'tactical' knife while the Starmate is the 'tougher' hard use knife due to strength of tip. I realise that prying is not ideal for any knife, but when camping, from time to time it does become a vital need or for spliting wood. Yes I don't use the tip for this, but sometimes you need to prod or mark with a tip and the Military tip CAN'T be as strong as the Starmate tip.

Both are great knives though.
 
Tactical-schmacktical!!! We all know that the most stabbing Military blades do around here is to snatch a cube of cheese off the snack tray. The finer point of the Military, as compared to Starmate, Wegner and others is definately better for beginning the separation of the casing from a piece of sliced pepperoni. Face it, despite it's other capabilities, it's a great card game knife.:D
 
Well, you know, if some jerk wanted to try and ruin a good thread, he could probably argue that a knife that will really stab well won't look anything like the Military, or the Starmate, or any other modern folder for that matter. :)

A real stabbing knife will have a long, double edged, narrow, and fixed blade that's diamond-shaped in cross section and made of relatively soft and simple carbon steel. It will probably also have some type of large guard, to prevent the wielder's hand from slipping onto the blade and to prevent the hilt from punching into the wound channel. With a knife like this, there's not much worry about hitting bone or failing to penetrate; it should be able to stab through even plate armor.

The design of modern folders is a compromise between:
  • Convenience - Knife folds to make it easy to carry. Lack of guard adds to carryability.
  • Legality - Short, single edged blades are legal.
  • Looks - Blade shapes look cool, plus brittle stainless blades don't tarnish. And...
  • Usefulness - Wide, single ground blades are good for utility. Smaller or missing guard adds to useablity.
Being a good stabber, or just a good weapon in general, is pretty far down on the list of features that are important in a modern folding knife design.
 
Well, in spite of my penchant for whining about 440V steel, I must say that the tip of my 440V Military stood up VERY well when it was stabbed hard into a glass plate. Trying to pry something off something else while sitting on the plate. Putting a lot of force on it. Knife slips, BAM! into the plate. Looked at the tip, slightly bent, maybe for about 1mm back. I might have been able to steel it out with something, but I just took a stone to it. After a few sharpenings, the tip is not as fine as before, but it is still DA** fine, and works like a champ.

Don't know if that helps, but it is another's experience.
 
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