Stabilize? Do I Have To?

S

StephenDavis

Joined
Feb 23, 2023
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New to the forum and still working towards a first knife beyond those that started great and ended up in the practice pile. Let me tell you the biggest thing I’ve learned so far. Producing a beautiful knife of smart design without flaws is a serious skill. My respect for you who have mastered this craft/art is tenfold greater than before I began almost a year ago. Everything you do to the materials used will show up. It all looks simple from a distance but once I began I saw how no error could be hidden (I suppose I could get away with writing a swear word under the scales). Anyway, I look forward to someday having a knife made that I will feel good about sharing here.

My current search for knowledge regards wood stabilization. I have limited space and sometimes choose diy approach over a faster purchase and go approach, like with this wood stabilizing process. Beyond my dislike of wood that becomes a brick of epoxy after stabilizing, I question whether most woods need such a treatment to be reliably stable over time through various conditions and treatment. Any softer wood yes, something should be done to knit the fibers together beyond their natural state, but I have collected pieces of hardwoods for years that seem they could be treated with simple finishes like Tung oil and would persist for decades if properly dried and maintained (I’m open to being wrong so don’t sugarcoat responses). For example, I will be using Cocobolo and Padouk on upcoming build efforts. I want to know if there is a formula for stabilizing with or without vacuum that I can use the pine tar rosin (in solid form now) I have on hand.
 
Hey Stephen, welcome to BF. There’s a subforum here called Maintenance Tinkering and Embellishment that has some knowledgeable people who can give you good advice.

I’ll ask a mod to move this thread there, but meanwhile I’ll also comment.

I too like wood as a handle material, but have been frustrated with swelling and shrinking due to seasonal temp and humidity changes. Sometimes I can help reduce it by design changes or grain orientation, but those aren’t always enough.

My knives sometimes get used and knocked around in harsh outdoor conditions. A certain amount of scratching, denting and other scars I can accept as “knife history”, but cracking and warping cross that line. I find that vacuum stabilizing is more resistant to those flaws than other wood treatments I’ve tried, by a pretty good margin.

I have wood samples and actual handles on knives that I’ve soaked, boiled or pickled in various potions, and though I’ve liked some of them, none have resulted in the… well, stability that vacuum stabilizing has, on the wood species I use.

DIY stabilizing has come a long way, especially with the heat-cured chemistry now available. I’ve been tempted by it, but haven’t jumped in yet because of the tooling cost and space requirements, just not justifiable for the small volume I deal with. That, and I enjoy the blade making more than handle making. (Certain irony here, because my latest knife is on its third non-stabilized wooden handle, first two cracked so badly as to become unusable.)

I was told by K&G in Arizona that cocobolo is not a good candidate for stabilizing, being too dense and oily. Now that was several years ago, so their position may have changed, but in any case it stands to reason that a dense wood wil benefit less from stabilizing than a lighter more porous sample. Wood sent for commercial treatment needs to be as dry as you can get it, and it’ll come back noticeably heavier.

Best of luck to you, whichever option you choose.

Parker
 
Non stabilized is ok for stick tangs, and really works wonders for the balance.

Kiln dried non stable curly birch is one of my favorite handle materials.
 
Wood stabilization isn't something you are going to be very effective with using DIY gear. A plastic bag and a shopvac don't provide the level of vacuum needed to get the epoxy solution to penetrate more than skin deep, which hardly seems to be worth the effort. From what I can tell, it's quite common to outsource stabilizing woods to business with the experience and specialized gear to make the process work as effectively as possible. Even then the results can vary, thanks to wood being a natural medium that can harbor hidden flaws that the process will bring out. Knife handles that are of softer woods are perfectly acceptable, especially if they are properly hydrated and not allowed to get dry and brittle.

What I find to be really useful is to closely inspect the wood you are going to use, the grain will often give you signs where it wants to be problematic. It doesn't hurt to also go to a woodworking site and research the exact material you want to use; it would have saved me a lot of grief making knife handles of Wenge if I'd known how splitty it is. A little preparation in making the blank spares the need to stabilize for strength.
 
Welcome Stephan Davis. Fill out your profile so we know where you live and a bit about you. I see you are 72, so it is good to have another old-timer here.

Most woods benefit from stabilizing. Oily and dense woods, like cocobolo, ironwood, ebony, olive, etc. do not stabilize well or at all.
Lighter and more porous woods like maple, walnut, buckeye burl, sycamore, etc. are greatly enhanced by stabilizing both in stability and wearability as well as in the look of the wood. Some really pretty handle woods, like spalted maple and buckeye burl, could] not be used at all without stabilization.

There is nothing wrong with a worked in traditional finish like tung and similar oils. Older techniques like tars and linseed oil also work but take some time to get deeply into the wood.

Many of us send their nicer pieces of handle material to K&G to be properly stabilized with equipment we couldn't build at home (and would cost a lot!). When making knives for fun and personal use, it is a matter of your personal choice how to treat the handle. When selling knives, the customer will expect the best material for the handle and expect it not to warp or crack. Stabilized wood is the best way to prevent that. Another advantage of properly (professionally) stabilized wood is it takes on a really nice finish with only sanding and a quick buff. No finishes or oils to apply repeatedly and sand off. It is hard to get more out of curly maple than you get by stabilizing it.
 
Wow guys…so nice of you - the kind and informative responses. So much to learn…

It’s probably not uncommon to want to do every process and procedure in building a knife yourself. That’s my inner reaction when I heard that there are services available to stabilize wood for me. It does make sense given the experiences I see some of you have had with warpage and cracking. I’m tempted to buy the pump, make a chamber and spring for a gallon of Cactus cocktail.

I have collected experience in a large number of hobbies because I am driven to learn how things are done in so many arenas. The problem becomes that once I get the basics down I tend to move on to the next project of interest. Knife making attracts me the same way my profession as a piano rebuilder and tuner did some 46 short years ago; there are many facets that touch on manipulating a lot of different materials to an end result that can be it’s own reward. I’ve chased perfection over money and it’s brought me a load of both effort and satisfaction. But I ramble. Just wanted to relate what my motivation is, all in all.

Thank you all so much for your generous gift of your knowledge and experience to a total stranger. I’m truly touched by your response. I’ll try to be a worthy student.

Okay, I’d best get to my profile and find that more appropriate room in the forum first off. Then give this handle material prep some careful consideration (wait til you see his heat treating “kiln,” six fire bricks and two Mapp gas torches…🙄 heaven help the neighborhood. editor)
 
Hi Stephen. Everything stacy said….. i got interested in stabilizing a while ago (im a nerdy engineer, and also a “i like to try it myself” kind of person. Search for a thread i wrote titled “everything you ever wanted to know about stabilizing” (or something like that) where i tried to talk about stabilizing from a technical perspective.

My own developed perspective? Lime stacy said, a number if fragile woods (spalted woods, burled woods) are just way too fragile if not stabilized - but are stable and even more beautiful when stabilized. Ordinary straight grained hardwoods (maple, walnut, etc) can be used as-is (i have a couple knives with such handles that are pushing 100 years old) … BUT the stabilization process gives them more weight (which gives for a better “feel” in the hand, and also brings out the grain more and produces a wonderful finish with just sanding and some wax (like stacy said). Some exotics (cocobolo, ironwood, african blackwood, kingwood, etc) are hard to stabilize, and have both heft and finish wonderfully as-is.

From a technical perspective (from one do-it-yourselfernto another) … though many here would rather … vehiminently …. Argue against stabilizing at home, i do feel there is value in just trying it yourself, but, if you follow my stabilizing thread and it makes sense, you do need to pay attention to details (moisture levels of wood, pressures used, holding times,etc), and even then, unless you invest in some really expensive pressure cannisters and vacuum pumps and compressors, you will not be able to match the same penetration of resin that someone like k&g can accomplish. The result will likely be useable, but i would hesitate to use the result on a blade to be sold.

Full disclosure - though i think the process is cool, and would be interested in trying it “just because” … so far i have just sent my wood out to k&g. I just got back a batch that included some straight grained black walnut … and i was surprised by how much the stabilization made the grain in that wood “pop” compared to the unstabilized..

Fwiw.
 
I think one problem folks who "home stabilize" is that they try to stabilize things that are too big.

I think if you took your scale as close as possible to finished dimensions before stabilizing, you'd have much better results.

I mean if your home stabilizing can get 1/2 inch of penetration, trying to stabilize anything even close to 1 inch would be a bit suspect... Better safe than sorry!
 
C Cushing H. I would like to state I am in no way opposed to home stabilization. I think some people enjoy the process and are happy with the results they are able to get from it. To those people I think it is a fun hobby and im always down for more people interested in fine woods. My point has always been that for my business and my clients, the disadvantages of home stabilized material greatly outweigh any benefits, especially for high end woods in larger volumes like I tend to work with.

Stabilizing is expensive, and if im being honest I think sometimes people will go overboard. as mentioned lots of dense, straight grained domestic and exotic woods work perfectly well for handles. Woods with burl or dense figure are naturally more prone to checks, cracks and other stress issues due to a combination of their grain orientaion and species. Woods like Amboyna burl, Dense burl, fiddleback acacias, bog oak and the like in my opinion see a lot of improvement.
 
Greenberg Woods said:
C Cushing H. I would like to state I am in no way opposed to home stabilization. I think some people enjoy the process and are happy with the results they are able to get from it. To those people I think it is a fun hobby and im always down for more people interested in fine woods. My point has always been that for my business and my clients, the disadvantages of home stabilized material greatly outweigh any benefits, especially for high end woods in larger volumes like I tend to work with.

Stabilizing is expensive, and if im being honest I think sometimes people will go overboard. as mentioned lots of dense, straight grained domestic and exotic woods work perfectly well for handles. Woods with burl or dense figure are naturally more prone to checks, cracks and other stress issues due to a combination of their grain orientaion and species. Woods like Amboyna burl, Dense burl, fiddleback acacias, bog oak and the like in my opinion see a lot of improvement.
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Ben - I do not disagree - and in fact agree quite strongly with your comment. I did say that I would hesitate to recommend that home stabilized wood be used on a knife to be sold. In fact, I rather consciously toned that comment down from the sentiment I really wanted to convey. I will leave the actual alternate wording of that comment to the imagination.... :-)
 
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