Stabilizing Questions

Chris Crawford

Chris Crawford

Joined
Apr 14, 2001
Messages
380
I know there have probably been hundreds of stabilizing questions ask, but there are a few that I've not run across the answerers by searching. Please help if you can. (I've also posted these questions in the ToolTime forum, but there is not as much activity there as there is here.)

1) What is the vacuum in inches of mercury that needs to be pulled on average to stabilize a set of scales?

2) What kind of drying time do you usually allow for stabilized material before using it?

3) What is your preferred stabilizing medium?

I just finished building a small stabilizer, and gave it a try last night. All I could find at Wal-Mart to use in it was some polyurethane. I used it on a set of scales, but I think the ploy was a little too thick. Can I cut this ploy with acetone to thin it down? If so, how much?

Thanks -chris

__________________
Chris Crawford Knives

 
Chris, As far as thinning the polyurethane I believe regular paint thinner is all you need. Minwax wood hardner can also be used. Darren Ellis offer's Nelsonite that has been used for years on pool ques. Takes a couple weeks to cure. I also think Watco Teak finish would be a goodone. I've only used a hand vacuum pump that I got at a car parts dealer and it seemed to work just fine.
 
Do a search on stabilizing.You will find a bunch of threads on this.There have been many differing opinions,but mine has always been - Home stabilizing is not practical unless you just want to impregnate the wood with some sort of wood finish (minwax),which is not really stabilizing. Nelsonite won't work for knives,it stabilizes the wood UNDER a hard finish,as on a pool cue.Polyurethane will soak in a bit,but isn't the same as professionally stabilized wood.The resin to use is a monomer-acrylic resin (sort of a cousin to super glue).It is several hundreds dollars a bucket.It does not have a long shelf life.It takes 29-30inches of vacuum to do the wood.Any questions you have on stabilizing can be answered by Mike Ludderman at WSSI.He is one of the best stabilizers around.He does several hundred pounds a year for me.
 
A home treatment doesn't give the same results that commercial stabilizing does. Doesn't cost near as much either. I use minwax wood hardener with an akyloid called akyloid B-72 mixed in. What I'm trying to do is stop the wood from growing or shrinking with the changes in moisture content in the air. It works pretty well for that. I use a brake bleeder pump to draw a vacumn.Once the wood stops bubbling i let it set 2 more days and then let it dry for a week.
My $.02
Yake Care
TJ
 
I use the minwax hardener all the way. I have a vacuum pump, but rarely even turn it on these days. The Minwax is very penetrating, and if you soak your scales a few days it'll be all you will need. Minwax, plus a nice CA finish = sweetness!
 
I've done several woods with minn wax wood hardener, vacuum and then pressure chamber. NO more for me, I use nothing but professionally stabilized stuff now if it needs stabilizing. I just sent off 18 blocks(1 1/4"x2"x5") to wssi and it only cost $85, thats under $5 a handle, pretty darn cheap if you ask me.

Have fun,

Bill
 
Bill has learned the value of his time,AND the value of his product.Is it worth saving $2-3 (not to mention your time),and turn out a less than perfect knife.I want my customers to appreciate the quality of the wood as much as the workmanship of the blade.The other point is that compared to the time involved in making the blade and finishing the knife,a few dollars for a better handle is a good investment.
Stacy
 
OK MY 2 cent for what it's worth..
you can look at this two ways.
if the wood is right in the first place you shouldn't have to stabilize.
Chuck B has commented many times on this..
to some,,
Stabilizing is kind of like cheating..to others it's a piece of mind thing,

I have wood I've had K&G stabilize for me..
I do my own also in house.
I also use minwax wood hardener it was made to
stabilize rotten wood, so way not?
it has acetone in it and it does penetrate fairly well , I just make sure I do it
when the handle is to shape..

Vacuum ? for all intent purposes we can not get to 30in Mercury here on earth , if in your home / shop set up you are reaching 30 , your gauge is wrong..

with minwax wood hardener once you reach about 26 IN's it will start to boil
I keep mine right about at the start to boil point. time depends on the wood or what have you..you'll see the air escape from the materiel, once it stops
release the vacuum to let the Minwax replace where the air once was..
if you can pressurize the unit it will drive it deeper. warm fluid will flow better..
remember acetone is flammable.

http://www.minwax.com/products/woodmaint/hardener.cfm
Minwax® High Performance Wood Hardener's extra hard resin is dissolved in a solution of solvents. These solvents carry the resin deep into the pores of the wood where they quickly evaporate leaving behind the hardened resin resulting in hardened wood.

just to be the devils advocate.
it takes me longer to send stuff out then it takes hands on stabilizing my self..
this is not to say having it done professionally is not better, but if done right I think the handle can be just as good..and last just as long.
 
I do the same as TJ. 50/50 B72 and wood hardener. I also use different color pigments with good results. I sent some whale rib bone out to be done and I did some in house and really couldn't see any differences sanding, polishing and the density of the material. I put the material in the mason jars pull a vacuum and I'll leave it in the solution for weeks to months.
 
indian george said:
I do the same as TJ. 50/50 B72 and wood hardener. I also use different color pigments with good results. I sent some whale rib bone out to be done and I did some in house and really couldn't see any differences sanding, polishing and the density of the material. I put the material in the mason jars pull a vacuum and I'll leave it in the solution for weeks to months.
Click to expand...

I keep mine right about at the start to boil point. time depends on the wood or what have you..you'll see the air escape from the materiel, once it stops
release the vacuum causing a negative atmosphere letting the Minwax replace where the air once was..

I think you can cut your time down a lot IG.
follow my thinking..
The vacuum can't work so well for you unless you release it at the right time,
only then will the materials will be at a neg atmosphere trying to equalize the now pos atmosphere out side
this now is allowing the material to suck the stuff in instead of mainly soaking it in if left under the vacuum,
soaking it to long may just plug the pores.,if this happens the vacuum does little good.IMHO your just soaking it.
.again
the vacuum causes a negative atmosphere on and in the material pulling out air,
when the vacuum is released you now have a positive atmosphere on the out
side pushing the medium into the material..
because
the material is Neg..
if the pores plug by letting it set in a vacuum to long stabilization won't happen as fast or if at all to the point of full advantage.

I'd do the vacuum thing first , release then soak,, for a deeper stabilize.
2 cents to ponder..

Just my 2 cent
 
Dan: Time is not a issue for me. Mason jars a cheap and ever few days or weeks I release the vacuum and reapply. When I am done they do not float in the solution. If you leave it under vacuum the solution has no access to H2O so how can it dry and clog the pores?? Once you take it out to dry you get the positive pressure or put it into a pressure pot. My .02 Different strokes for different folks:jerkit: HEHEHE!!
 
If you leave it under vacuum the solution has no access to H2O so how can it dry and clog the pores??
Click to expand...

H2O is water you old fart..:D


from the traped air you can't get out :D
yeahup :jerkit: :D
 
Dan Gray said:
H2O is water you old fart..:D


from the traped air you can't get out :D
yeahup :jerkit: :D
Click to expand...
Well it won't get in there either. HEHEHE!!!
Then go back and fix the little prayer. You put down players.:p :p
 
fitzo said:
You guys sure do like that new smilie! :D
Click to expand...
Mike
spark was tring to tell IG something :D :D



indian george said:
Then go back and fix the little prayer. You put down players.:p :p
Click to expand...
IG it's fixed,, man a guy misses one letter and the world falls apart.. .:p
indian george said:
Dan: Mason jars a cheap and ever few days or weeks I release the vacuum and reapply. jerkit: HEHEHE!!
Click to expand...

IG what is, a cheap and ever few? :D hahaha dish it take :D
 
IG what is, a cheap and ever few? :D hahaha dish it take :
Dude: Due as you say and say as you due.(ISO9000) HEHEHEHE!! Now think about that for awhile.:confused: :confused:
 
indian george said:
IG what is, a cheap and ever few? :D hahaha dish it take :
Dude: Due as you say and say as you due.(ISO9000) HEHEHEHE!! Now think about that for awhile.:confused: :confused:
Click to expand...
:confused:
but did you think about it:D

ISO900 is an internationally recognized standard of quality and includes guidelines to accomplish the ISO9000 quality standard :D

your due done do'ed :D
 
Dan Gray said:
:confused:
but did you think about it:D

ISO900 is an internationally recognized standard of quality and includes guidelines to accomplish the ISO9000 quality standard :D

your due done do'ed :D
Click to expand...
I can tell you had to look that up. It word for word out of the manual.:jerkit: :jerkit: HEHEHEHE!!!!
 
indian george said:
I can tell you had to look that up. It word for word out of the manual.:jerkit: :jerkit: HEHEHEHE!!!!
Click to expand...

from the manual I wrote I imagine :rolleyes: :D

your do due is still over done..:D
 
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