Stainless choice for Cooking knives

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Remyrw

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Jun 17, 2010
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I'm looking at possible options for making some chef's knives, traditional and otherwise. I'd like to go stainless but also something a bit more exotic than 440c.

So far I'm looking at CPM S-30V and CPM 3V but I'm sure there are other options to consider. CPM 154CM was my original thought but at the price difference to upgrade to the other two it seemed worthwhile.

My thought process on this is that I want something very tough because it will be a thin blade with a very long thin edge and I don't want it to get chipped up cutting things like dried herbs or hitting the bone when cutting a roast. On the other hand it has to hold up and keep an edge over time while being rehoned on a steel rather than sharpened on a stone all the time. Am I looking at this wrong or overlooking something? Other choices you guys suggest?
 
I love kitchen knives! I've made a couple, one in ATS-34 which performs very well. The other is D2 so it doesn't qualify as a stainless. VG-10 makes for a nice kitchen knife as well as ZDP-189 if you can find some:thumbup: I've also seen a fair number of kitchen knives in 154CM, basically the same as the ATS-34 from Hitachi.

Just for the record, you listed CPM 3V among your prospective steels. CPM 3V, while a damn fine steel that's tough as nails is not a stainless. I've never had much trouble with corrosion on my 3V knives, but then again I don't use them in the kitchen. Just something to keep in mind if you're really set on using stainless steel.

Got any pics of the designs your planning on making?
 
AEBL a.k.a. 13C26 is another choice. Compared to some of the others it should be very
fine grained, very stain resistant, easy to sharpen to a keen edge. The downside is less
wear resistance so you need to sharpen it more often.

If you're considering S30V you should look into S35V, which seems to be it's improved
successor.
 
Doh, you're right, I didn't notice that it's only 7.5%, better than nothing, but lower than I'd like for this.

No designs yet, but probably a pretty traditional germanic chef's knife and a modern american interpretation of a santoku. I'll probably get a little creative but not too far, I want them to stand out but not be so odd that a traditional chef is turned off by them.

I'm thinking fairly gentle curves and full height bevels. I'm still trying to decide if I'll try bolsters since as a stock removal guy I can't do integral. Well, I could, if I started with one heck of a thick piece of steel. :)

edit:
Dan, just checked and yeah, S35's an option. A bit more money but still within the budget for this. I'll have to look into 13C26, I'd never thought about that option. Thanks.
 
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Dan Pierson said:
AEBL a.k.a. 13C26 is another choice. Compared to some of the others it should be very
fine grained, very stain resistant, easy to sharpen to a keen edge. The downside is less
wear resistance so you need to sharpen it more often.

If you're considering S30V you should look into S35V, which seems to be it's improved
successor.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything Dan wrote. The new S35VN is great. It takes a scary sharp edge. I like it much more than S30V. AEB-L & 13C26 are great budget steels. They both must be cryo'd to get the best performance.

If you want tough check out Elmax. I think it is the toughest stainless steel available.
 
i use cpm154 as you really done need the extra abrasion resistance so long as the steel is nive and hard
i run mine at 62-63
if you feel the need to upgrade to anything the s35 would be the one i would try (i need to make one and see how it works )

and yes if your going to do it you wil need the cryo
 
I'll be sending it out to Paul Bros HT or Peter's, so it'll get first rate HT.

Butch, you don't have problems with the edge chipping with it that hard on the CPM 154? How well would it do when ground down like you get at the point of a kitchen knife? I'd hate to have the point chip off or anything like that, at least not more easily than some other steel choice would. CPM154 would certainly cost me less, which is always a consideration. These aren't going to be world class or anything, I'm still a newbie, so if CPM 154 is going to be more than adequate for the job then I'm not sure it's worth the extra money just for the cache of it being S35V. The likely owners won't know the difference once it's not just 440C or just "stainless". The choice of a more exotic steel for me at this point is more a marketing and image thing than anything else. There's value to that, but how much value is still up in the air.
 
Chuck Bybee said:
I agree with everything Dan wrote. The new S35VN is great. It takes a scary sharp edge. I like it much more than S30V. AEB-L & 13C26 are great budget steels. They both must be cryo'd to get the best performance.

If you want tough check out Elmax. I think it is the toughest stainless steel available.
Click to expand...

Chuck,
I'm with you on the Elmax!:thumbup: Kershaw has done a great job with it, and I'm currently waiting on my first blades incorporating it to come back from Peters. Looking forward to finishing those up and seeing how they perform.

Chuck, do you know where I could get some more of that killer steel!!?!?!:D;)
 
Another nice thing about CPM-154 is that it polishes up VERY well, even if you dont use a buffer. I can get a close-to-mirror shine on it just by hand-sanding up to 2000 grit with Norton Black Ice sandpaper. Of course, this may not matter to you, since most folks don't need that high a polish on a kitchen knife. Anyway I think it's a fine choice for a chef's blade.

Using Bos or Peter's HT is a smart move. Both firms do great work, provide the proper cryo cycles and can nail whatever Rc hardness you specify. You can bring your blades very close to final finish before HT, since the processes they use don't leave hardly any scale on "stainless" blades. Just a thin layer of discoloration which is easily sanded off. Get any noticeable scratches out of your blade before sending out, because it will be much more time-consuming to get them out after.

Don't overthink it :) All the steels you listed can make VERY good knives. The differences between them are a little-of-this vs. a bit-of-that and mostly a matter of preference.

As far as toughness... when ground that thin and sharp, I'm not sure even CPM-3V will show a huge difference in resistance to chipping if the knife is abused. In reasonable use and properly HT'ed, again, all the steels you list should hold up just fine. As long as the user remembers it's a precision cutting tool, not a paint scraper or bone cleaver! :D
 
I think you'll find that CPM154 holds a better fine edge than S30V and will work better in the kitchen. I suspect the same will also be true of S35VN. Steels with lots of carbide in them don't do as well with fine edge stability, and I don't think the extra abrasion resistance is going to buy you much in the kitchen. Things that are abrasive enough to bring the carbides into play are probably not a good idea to eat. The 13C26 looks interesting, though I've never tried it.
 
ive never had a knife come back with a broken tip or even any nasty edge chipps (well one i know of but was52100 at hight hardness but i never saw it first hand)

i did have the edge brake down on a razor i made at 63 rc but that edge was honed into a blade that was .004 thick and had a total angle of 16 degrees (thats jsut too extreme for most any steel )
if you think of the kitchen knife being full flat ground at 2degrees total to .010or less then honed to 10-15 per side you can see how there is muchmore blade to hold that edge

in the kitchen you do more push cutting not sawing on the food (least thats how your sposta do things) there are not many uses for a truly toothy edge in the kitchen
 
Thanks guys, looks like CPM154 or just 154CM/ATS34 will be my choice unless there's a particularly great deal on S35V when I'm ready to buy.

I'm probably going to keep them at a wet sanded satin finish, one meal and they will have some scratches in a mirror finish so I'd rather have something that won't look as beat up when that happens.

Now to work on designs for a while, I've got a bit before the knife budget allows this project since it won't be something I get paid for, they're a gift. Thankfully not a holiday gift, or I'd be racing around like an idiot. :)
 
Remyrw said:
I'm probably going to keep them at a wet sanded satin finish, one meal and they will have some scratches in a mirror finish so I'd rather have something that won't look as beat up when that happens.
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Good choice. I've read that a couple makers supply a piece of 3M scotch-brite or Norton Beartex pad with the knife for cleaning. They do a nice job of scrubbing them clean and any scratches blend in well with most satin finishes.
In fact you can get belts made of the same material to use for your final finish, they're very popular for a good-looking, low-maintenance satin :thumbup:
 
In my opinion 13C26 is an excellent kitchen steel. It is corrosion resistant, easy to sharpen and takes an extremely fine edge (its razor blade steel). Although it is not as abrasion resistant as others mentioned here. To my way of thinking ease of sharpening is more important than abrasion resistance to the AVERAGE kitchen knife user. Just my .02.
 
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